Electrical Problem - *NOT* SOLVED

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spyd3rm4n

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I previously had an issue where the bike (2004) would idle and rev fine, but as soon as I tried to ride it would bog/sputter badly when I gave it throttle. I found water in my fuel system so today I got all of the water out, got the tank perfectly clean and made sure I got fresh clean fuel out of all the float bowls. Installed new spark plugs, did an oil change, and coolant flush too.

Today I started it up and it idled fine and revved in neutral without any issues. As soon as I took the bike off the center stand and put it in gear it started intermittently sputtering again just like before. This time it was dark out and I realized the entire dash was flickering, like intermittent complete loss of power.

I thought maybe a dead/weak battery so I swapped it with the fresh battery on my 2002 FZ1 which I was just riding last weekend. The problem is still there with the new battery.

Could this be a sticking kickstand switch or a faulty tipover sensor? The mechanical part of the kickstand switch was gummy and not moving freely so I lubricated it and it now moves smoothly when I raise and lower the kickstand, but I don't know about the contacts inside. My next step is to bypass the switch (disconnect the switch and use a jumper wire.)

Has anyone had these issues before? What else should I be focusing on? I checked the infamous white connector. It isn't melted but there was some minor corrosion - a white coating. I sanded the pins and sprayed some electrical contact cleaner on them.

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UPDATE - I think it was a corroded electrical connector. Several of the connectors with the heavier gauge wires (power) had some visible white and bluish crust on them. There's a bundle of connectors under the tank and the red one had a few pins that were really bad. Sprayed with some contact cleaner that was recommended by a guitar guy and upon reconnecting everything today the bike starts and runs great now.

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UPDATE 2 - Problem is back, this issue is happening more than before and almost left me stranded at work. Updated post below.
 
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Real time updates here...

I did some more testing. When the dash started flickering I noticed the tach needle was showing the 9000 RPM code a few times, jumping back and forth between 0 and 9000 as the power flickered on and off. The problem is also intermittent. It'll start up and run fine, then at random the dash is flickering off and on and the engine is cutting out. I'll go for a test ride down the street and it's fine, then it just starts flickering and engine sputtering again.

Could this be a faulty lean/tipover sensor? How can I properly diagnose this? I have another FZ1 in the garage that runs perfectly so I can easily swap parts over.

This got me thinking, the clutch switch only allows the starter to engage when the bike is in gear. A faulty clutch switch won't kill power. Same for the kickstand switch - that just shuts the engine off if you put the bike in gear with the kickstand down.

This dash flickering tells me ignition power is being cut entirely. Does the tipover sensor cut power like that?

I just went over ALL electrical connectors on the bike and there's a bundle above the carbs with four connectors. The red one had some very bad corrosion on two of the pins, so I cleaned all of them up and reconnected. It's too late for a test ride, but I'm hoping that's it. If not, my next step is to swap the tipover sensor.
 
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Eff-Zed-1 said:
And you've looked in your service manual at the self diagnosis pages or trouble shooting suggestions?
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Yes but it doesn't have any good help for the tip over sensor. Just says to inspect connections, no detailed testing steps.

I inspected connections, all of them on the bike and some that had bad corrosion. Cleaned that up but no test ride yet.

Where's the chassis ground? I need to check that.
 
bunk said:
Theres a tip over sensor on a gen 1 ?!

It pays to buy unabused/unneglected bike, man o man
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There absolutely is!

I knew what I was getting myself into. Bike was stored for 20 years and I got it stupid cheap. And I have the means and skill to get it going, definitely not a buy and ride but when I'm through with it I'll have a clean low mileage bike.

My situation is a textbook example of why 'low mileage' doesn't always mean better, more reliable, etc. I bought my Silver 02 FZ1 with 35K+ miles on it, definitely not a show bike but it was ridden and maintained regularly. This bike has never failed to start, even after sitting for months.

Now the Blue 2004 FZ1 I just got has only 3000 miles on it but sat on the center stand alongside the previous owners house; mostly covered. It's a fun little project.
 
I updated my original post above, but I think it's been fixed. I only did a short test run around the block but all the weird behavior with the flickering and sputtering last night is gone. Several of the connectors with the heavier gauge wires (power) had some visible white and bluish crust on them. There's a bundle of connectors under the tank and the red one had a few pins that were really bad. I sprayed them generously with some contact cleaner that was recommended by a guitar guy and upon reconnecting everything today the bike starts and runs great now.
 
After going over all the connectors on the bike and cleaning them up I thought the problem was solved, but it came back. It happened once to me a few days ago but it was just a hiccup and I didn't think much of it. Then today while going to work it started sputtering again with the power flickering but went away. Then when I was getting ready to leave work I had no power whatsoever when I turned the ignition on. I tapped on the relays with the screwdriver from my tool kit and it started and got me home.

I'm starting to think it may be a bad relay; either the main relay (under the left side cover under the seat) or maybe even the starter relay? For a few days when I first started using this bike the high beam relay wasn't working well; took a few times toggling it before it started working. So relay failure is entirely possible. I read somewhere for a different bike where someone's starter relay had some internal short that was causing similar issues. Also this sputtering and erratic electrical behavior only happens after I start the engine; never happens with the engine off but ignition on. I'm going to swap them over from my 2002 and see what happens.

If it was just a bad kill switch, kickstand switch, or tipover sensor it would just disable the starter circuit not kill all electrical power to the bike. The main ground next to the starter looks clean. Aside from the relays and the ignition switch itself I'm not sure what else to check. Is there any convenient way to clean the ignition contacts under the key switch?
 
The no power situation would be your friend in finding the culprit. Did you try spraying WD40 into the keyhole? That was recommended for intermittent power on FZ1OA. Seems as though it's ignition related.
 
Isleoman said:
The no power situation would be your friend in finding the culprit. Did you try spraying WD40 into the keyhole? That was recommended for intermittent power on FZ1OA. Seems as though it's ignition related.
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Not WD40 but some electrical contact cleaner. I did that when I went over all electrical connectors and sprayed them too, but the problem still came back. I sprayed it again using a lot more this time.

Is there an easy way to remove the ignition switch without removing the upper triple clamp?

I've been busy with work and haven't gotten to it yet but I'm going to swap the relay module under the left side cover with my other Gen I. It looks like the previous owner was messing around with the starter relay too since it looks new and wasn't seated properly in the rubber grommets.
 
I didn't swap the relay module yet but I did a bit more diagnostic work. I don't think it's the relay module - the one I thought it was is the box under the left side cover that controls the starter circuit and only allows the bike to start if it's in neutral, or kickstand is down, or the clutch is pulled in, or kill switch is not enabled. If I unplug that module the bike still has ignition power and lights with the key on. Same for the tipover sensor. If the tipover sensor is unplugged completey, bike still has ignition power with lights and gauges illuminated.

If I disconnect the four wire connector at the starter relay, there's no ignition power. No lights and no gauges lit. I noticed this connector previously had corrosion on some pins but I cleaned them up well. I cleaned them again and noticed I didn't check the 15A fuse on the starter relay. With this fuse removed there's no power... and while there isn't any visible corrosion on the fuse, one leg looked worn and the fuse was slightly loose. I swapped it with the spare fuse attached to the starter relay, hoping that was the issue.

Another possibility is that the starter relay is faulty, some internal intermittent connection. The starter engages fine but usually after starting that's when the flickering ignition happens.

Either that or back to the ignition switch. I've been spraying contact cleaner down the ignition key slot a few times now.
 
jwarden said:
Doesn't sound like the starter relay if the flickering happens after it starts. The starter relay is out of the picture once it starts.
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It's not entirely out of the picture. If you unplug the four wire connector at the starter relay it kills all ignition power, no lights no gauges. Same behavior if you remove the 15A fuse on the starter relay. I'm thinking either those connections were corroded or there's something wrong inside the relay. My theory was that something is loose and only affected by the vibrations when the engine is running.

My starter relay appears to be a generic replacement from the previous owner.

Is there anything else I should be looking at that would cut all power? I was thinking maybe a short somewhere, but wouldn't that blow a fuse? All my fuses are fine and there are no melted wires.
 
Yes, I didn't mean it could be disconnected and still work as the primary side is in series with other things such as the starting circuit cut-off relay. I just meant that the current through the primary side of the starter relay seems fine or it wouldn't start so it does not seem like excessive resistance there. Might want to check connections at the starting circuit cut-off relay for sure. Maybe even unplug and re-plug the ECU to make sure connection is solid there.
 
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