FZ1N cutting out and stalling

T

Tommo

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Hi all.

Not long had my 2006 FZ1N, was forced to put in the lower octane fuel as we had an issue with petrol stations locally. Filled the tank and set off. After a couple miles the bike started jerking violently and the popping from the exhaust on overrun stopped. I pulled into my mates garage, dumped enough fuel to get me to the nearest station and filled with high octane.

Issue resolved for about 30 miles then when the tank was near empty it started again.

Removed and fully drained the tank, removed the fuel pump and washed out. Cleaned the gauze out too.

Refit everything and refilled with high octane.

Rode about 60 miles, no issues at all until I pulled into the fuel station. Didnt fill up as they didnt have high octane. Started the bike up and immediately stalled. Struggled to start but when it did start it cut out constantly. Limped out of the fuel station and the jerking began. Cutting out at junctions. 60 mile ride home and it wasnt as violent but the jerking was prominent.

Few weeks later rode 20 miles, no issues. Stopped for half hour rode home again no issues.

Last trip out, 30 mile trip through a roads, hit the town centre and 10 mins later it started again. Limped it to the garage and it hasnt moved since.

Previous owner had no issues and neither did I till I noticed it after the low octane fuel situation.

Issue does NOT happen at WOT. Only seems to occur when idling, or gentle riding. Low revs etc.

Tank has been off a few times since, pipes not kinked.

Since then I've removed the Ivan's FCE and checked battery and connections - all ok.

Fuel tank vent tubes all ok.

Following is the mods I'm aware of.

Mods:

Delkavic exhaust slip on
Ivan's FCE (now removed)
Remap (unsure of where or what kind)

AIS still intact
Air box still standard

Possibly only when engines warm however first ride with troubles, I'd covered 1 mile to fuel station then 2 from there before issue started.

Engine light comes on when its jerking. I had codes 14 and 19 prior to the fault from the FCE. Now I have code 20 after the last fault.

Anyone come across something to give me pointers?

Hopefully that's enough info.


Many thanks
 
Have you looked up what those codes are? Have you tried any Injection Cleaning additives?

The Octane will make less of a difference than the quality of the gas you are using. my 2003 has major stalling issues and trouble idling when I use gas from Costco or other cheap gas places, but if I run Chevron or Shell 87 Octane the bike runs great.

Chevron, Shell and 76 have much better detergents in their gas than anything else I can get in SoCal.

What are the options in your area?

I would try picking up a Lucas Oil Injection Treatment and dump the entire bottle into the tank on you next fill-up, and stick to high quality gas for a few tanks and see if the issue clears up.
 
Thanks Klurejr.

I checked the codes and followed the problem back to each item. Cant fault anything as yet as it seems to be intermittent, however others have had similar faults and replacing the sensors dont usually seem to fix them. I'm trying to stay away from replacement of parts in case I'm throwing stuff at it that isnt required.

I havent tried any cleaner, I've always been told a good tank of fuel is just as good.

I live in the UK, with the hack caused to the local filling stations, the only place left within the range of my fuel tank was E10 95 octane. I usually refuse any less than E5 97 minimum.

Since raising this post, I havent changed anything other than removing my FCE and since then weve had storms and I've had an operation on my shoulder so unfortunately havent had time to take it out.

I managed a short 30 mile ride with no issues. I'm feeling confident the FCE may be faulty. But we shall see.

Thanks

Tom
 
A quick search brought this back for me:

In the United States gas stations describe the types of gasoline based on the Pump Octane Number (PON). That number is the average between RON and MON. This causes many problems.

If a fuel is 98 RON then it will be 93 PON -> 93 PUMP
If a fuel is 95 RON and 87 MON then it will be 91 PON -> 91 PUMP
Click to expand...

If that is true, then your 95 Octane is equal to the US' 91 Octane. My 03 FZ1 manual states that it only needs a min of 87 Octane, which would be lower than what is even possible to purchase there.

Since you are on a Gen 2 I looked up the manual and it designates 91 Octane and I can only guess that is a US Unit, not a European unit:
1645112120563.png

So, putting in 95 Octane in Europe/UK should be perfectly fine. It is not the Octane levels you need to worry about, but rather the quality of Detergents in the Gasoline. As I mentioned there are only 3 Brands of Gasoline I trust out of the dozens out there (other big brands and many small no-name mom and pop filling stations). The Octane levels have more to do with Compression of the engine and anti-detonation properties. The detergents will prevent gunk buildup in the fuel lines and the Injectors/Carbs. Octane will do nothing for Gunk Buildup.

As I mentioned before, Once I switched to Chevron all my idle and stalling issues went away.

In speaking to my mechanic(for my cars) they also recommended only using the brands I trust. In his experience over 30 years he says the difference in cleanliness inside the engine is noticeable between customers who use a quality detergent gas and ones that don't.

I hope you heal up soon and the weather cooperates so you cat get out there and test it further.

I don't know if you get Lucas Oil Products in the UK, but this is what I use on occasion with my bikes and my cars. (before switching to Chevron I had to use it every 2-3 tanks....)
https://www.amazon.com/Lucas-Oil-LU...ocphy=9031303&hvtargid=pla-583611740605&psc=1
 
My 06 Fz1 started surging intermittently and back firing at times turned out to be my spark plug coil caps they were letting the spark leak out through them to ground.
might b something to look over and c if you can see a carbon spark trail.
 
Tommo said:
Last trip out, 30 mile trip through a roads, hit the town centre and 10 mins later it started again. Limped it to the garage and it hasnt moved since.

Previous owner had no issues and neither did I till I noticed it after the low octane fuel situation.

Issue does NOT happen at WOT. Only seems to occur when idling, or gentle riding. Low revs etc.



Many thanks
Click to expand...


my bet is this has absolutely nothing to do with fuel. Im going to bet based on both age (old) and symptoms that actually your ignition coils (the plugs that go over the spark plugs) have started to go faulty. symptom i experience when they go bad-

-bike runs fine on COLD start
-bike becomes jerky at LOW RPM when HOT.
-bike still runs normal after about 4500 RPM.

reasoning- the insulation in the ignition coil responsible for separating low/high voltage (i think could be wrong there) breaks down over time. eventually this will happen ALL the time, cold or hot, but you will first see signs only when HOT and at 0-4500ish RPMs. after 4500RPMs, the high voltage part of the coil works for some reason.

SOLUTION- new or used set or ignition coil packs for the bike. you can source them from other "models" used on ebay. R1, r6, almost all the FI years.
 
Hi all. Thank you so much for your responses. After removing my Ivan's Fuel Cut Eliminator, I've had absolutely zero issues since. Not only that but ignition coil on cylinder one, the seal wasnt quite tight around the cylinder head so possibly getting water in, however, in my experience once coil going down doesnt cause the bike to cut out. But, I work on cars not bikes, so theres every possibility.
Looking to replace the FCE with an ECU flash that will place a similar upgrade within the ECU parameters now rather than plugging into the bikes wiring harness.

Once again many thanks to you all for your help. Took a while to get some nice weather to test it but having 2 trips out this weekend and a few hundred miles, I can only be sure it's now resolved.
 
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