Look them in the eyes

[johnnyontherocks]

Please tell me you were stopped when you were trying to take the picture


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[PapaGeno21]

My favorite place is the highway. Just a lot less going on. City driving around here is a bitch, and let me tell you. Around here, looking people in the eyes for some reason gives them the idea you just said "go". I make it look like I have not seen anyone, I dont look at anyone directly. I do look at everything, but they cant see it.

However when someone does soemthing stupid, I have been known to get next to them once we are all moving and just stare at them with the "your gonna die" look.

The bike is just a mentally draining thing to drive in the city sometimes.

 

[NJFZ1]

Please tell me you were stopped when you were trying to take the picture

Of course, or I wouldn't be any better than the other driver. We were basically in bumper to bumper traffic, but the speeds would pick up to 10-15 MPH at times and this person still kept on reading...unbelievable!!!

 

[johnnyontherocks]

Sorry just checkin..

 

[Etroze]

Im with both sides here, watching the person and watching the wheels. In ND there isn't alot of congestion but there is alot of fast moving interstate traffic that can get down right dangerous. I do my best to stay in a postion where the person driving the vehicle can always see me in their mirrors but thats not good enough cause no one I know ever uses their mirrors on the interstate. They just move over like they are cattle moving at 80mph. Now that being said that is where a person has to be good at keeping a few things in the mind at once. Position so they can see you, position where you can see whats going on with the vehicle, and whats going on to the next vehicle ahead of them. Lets face it paying attention to the one vehicle is good practice but what happens when the person right infront of that vehicle locks up their brakes for some reason. Thats my 2 cents glad people here can give great safety info.:Rockon:

 

[Evitzee]

Every car and bike i've ever owned has had a pair of these...



I can perfectly see my blind spot as well as behind me.

Those mirrors are good, but you can adjust your normal side mirrors so the blind spot is eliminated. Most drivers adjust their mirrors to show too much of the side of their own vehicle.

 

[gtbigup01]

I sure am soaking lots of tips and suggestions here, however I assume these "looking at the front wheel" comments are referring to a parked car. As I reall have no time to look at a moving car's front wheel as I'm riding. I do try to look 2 cars infront of me to see what that a$$ clown is doing. I also never ride behind anything I can't see through, around or over. That is no trucks, SUV or anything that taller than me on my bike.

Oh please, someone tell me that russian video is a video game lmao. How in the f**k did he not hit anything, or get hit? Extremely skillful even if a little on the crazy side. Love it!!

 

[Dustin]

When we say look at the front wheel, we don't mean stare at it. You should always be glancing as you ride along. Glance in your mirrors, glance at the road surface, glance at the cars ahead, glance at the intersection; your head should be on a swivel.

On the approach to an intersection, beside another vehicle, passing an occupied car in the parking lot, etc, etc... Those are times when you need to pay attention to what the other vehicle may be doing and the best way to get the most information in the shortest time is by using the front wheel as a cue because it will provide the most visible, understandable information to your brain.

Think of it this way: Long before a) the driver uses their eyes to look at their direction and b) the car itself actually moves; the front wheels will probably be either moving or turning to the left for that car that's about to pull ahead of you.

FYI, two cars ahead is typically not enough distance anywhere there's some traffic. You should be spacing yourself out in terms of seconds and not car lengths so you always have a concrete idea of where you should be. I consider 10-12 seconds as a goal for myself although this is not always realistic.

The reason for this is because in many situations, two cars ahead may only mean 2-3 seconds of time between seeing something and hitting something. If you consider that it may take 1/2 a second to interpret what you're seeing and 1 second to react (hitting the brakes) effectively, you've basically taken up nearly all of your available time to avoid a collision or whatever issue there is on the road.

 

[cookie99]

It is amazing what you can get away with when you are late for work and on your Police Bike

 

[gtbigup01]

The reason for this is because in many situations, two cars ahead may only mean 2-3 seconds of time between seeing something and hitting something. If you consider that it may take 1/2 a second to interpret what you're seeing and 1 second to react (hitting the brakes) effectively, you've basically taken up nearly all of your available time to avoid a collision or whatever issue there is on the road.

By this rationale, 10-12 seconds would be 10-12 cars ahead. Lets be realistic now, I know the book and all courses teached you 10-12 second rule. I am really not concerned about anything aver 3 cars ahead of me, chances are I can't see what they're doing anyway.

For instance (not bike related) just last year I'm traveling between states pulling my empty motorcycle utility trailer doing about 65-70, all of a sudden I see smoke ahead of me 2 cars ahead, I quickly glanced in my right mirror and swerved to the middle lane. Would you believe the car that was in front of me slamed into the car that emmited the smoke (from applied brakes) as well as the car that was behind me, before I swerved to the middle lane, slamed into the car that was in front of me. Seriously I was in a full sized Yukon Denali pulling an 11ft long trailer (gate to tongue). I had the benefit of being high so I was able to see what took place 2 cars up before I got there. There was now way my 5000lb SUV was stopping in that distance even though the trailer was empty.

 

[cshrumfz1]

this quick reply turned into an all-out dissertation!

I ride like I'm invisible, and try to always know where my escape space is.

A big +1 to that!
Also----

The main thing I learned from my MSF course (which was over 10 years ago...YAY memory!!) was the term SIPDE;

S- Scan. I am always scanning the road ahead. Always...keep your eyes moving, scanning the road and pertinent surroundings to effectively see danger ahead. (don't be focused so much on the dog walking beside the road that you fail to see the dog in the middle of it)
I- Identify. Identify potential 'issues' in your immediate area. As in, left turning vehicles, road hazards, intersections (which are always a high tension situation), etc.
P- Plan. Plan to make necessary changes in your original course. Plan on that dummy putting on her makeup to perform a 3 lane sweep right across your front wheel.
D- Decide. Determine what you will do once that bonehead does the "dumb-ass move of the day" right on front of you. (ie: slow down, change lanes, accelerate).
E- Execute. Execute the necessary action to safely and effectively avoid danger.

If I get through all 5 steps on this, I have added a 6th step, which is typically honk the horn, or a F--K YOU stare, maybe even communicate with them the F--K YOU finger (for the hearing impaired).

Always be vigilant! Not aggressive, just aware and assertive in your intentions. The "Decide and the Execute" part are typically higher than average amongst motorcyclists, what gets us in trouble are the first 3 steps. These come with practice, attention and of course with that comes experience.

I also typically do not like moving at the same speed as all the traffic around me. Maybe like 5 or so mph faster than traffic, to always be moving out of somebody's blind spot, and to keep visible to the obliviots (oblivious idiots) on the road in their cars, talking on their cell phones, changing radio stations, yelling at their kids (spouse), and so on....

 

[thepopularjock]

I picked up a good habit when I was commuting on the interstate everyday to work. When I was coming up on the driver's side of the car, I would check out the driver in THEIR side view mirror. You can actually get a pretty good look at the driver and how they are driving. You can see people texting, talking on their phone or even turned around talking to their kids in the backseat.

 

[Dustin]

Remember that riding is a mental game too. So many motorcyclists start their riding 'careers' off on the wrong foot, listening to bullshit from other shitty riders about how all 'cagers' are morons and out to kill you and this and that. This gets people psyched out, paranoid and more concerned with honking the horn or giving the finger or the last-second maneuver that barely escapes a crash.

My experience is that the people I've met who have a hate on for other motorists and are always psyching themselves up about incidents are the ones who always seem to have problems. This is the case on the forums I frequent and the people I've met...

I figure, better to avoid having an incident in the first place.

 

[thepopularjock]

I also typically do not like moving at the same speed as all the traffic around me. Maybe like 5 or so mph faster than traffic, to always be moving out of somebody's blind spot, and to keep visible to the obliviots (oblivious idiots) on the road in their cars, talking on their cell phones, changing radio stations, yelling at their kids (spouse), and so on....

Right on!!!
That is exactly how I do it.

 

[Rex D.]

Ok, here's what I was referring to by my original post, "look them in the eys". When approaching an intersection or driveway, it's prudent to make sure the driver is LOOKING at you vs looking the other way at traffic coming from the other direction, texting, phoning, applying make up, chewing on a big mac, etc. I believe and I think the statistics show most car vs motorcycle accidents result from the driver of the car "not seeing" the motorcycle and pulling out and causing the collision. Certainly we could cover every possible scenario and come up with the appropriate response/ evasive technique, strategies of survival mode one chooses to use and the discussion would be endless. All the responses to my "look them in the eyes" have been thought provoking. We all want to stay safe and healthy and "live long and prosper". Thanks for all the responses the the original post.:tup:

 

[cshrumfz1]

I have been in an accident on my wife's old R6, where the driver of the car was looking at me, watched me turn left in front of him, and then he STILL pulled out into me. This all happened at <10mph!

When I brushed myself off (didn't go down, but had to put my left foot on his bumper - and the right foot out on the ground for a few seconds!!!) I asked him what happened. He said that he did in fact see me, but that he simply "zoned out". No damage done to me or the bike, but scary as hell!

He saw me and still tried to take me out! Don't trust that just because you SEE this person that they will decide you are a worry to them. Don't count on just one method!

ALWAYS BE ON DEFENSE!

 

[thepopularjock]

I have been in an accident on my wife's old R6, where the driver of the car was looking at me, watched me turn left in front of him, and then he STILL pulled out into me. This all happened at <10mph!

When I brushed myself off (didn't go down, but had to put my left foot on his bumper - and the right foot out on the ground for a few seconds!!!) I asked him what happened. He said that he did in fact see me, but that he simply "zoned out". No damage done to me or the bike, but scary as hell!

He saw me and still tried to take me out! Don't trust that just because you SEE this person that they will decide you are a worry to them. Don't count on just one method!

ALWAYS BE ON DEFENSE!

This is true.
I had an old lady pull out in an intersection and stop. DEAD CENTER!!!! She pulled forward from a stop sign and looked to the left. She saw me then stomped on her breaks. As I was sliding down to the ground I saw the stupid look (eyes bulging, mouth open). She was frozen!!! LOL I will never forget that lady's face.
After I slammed into her driver's side door there was a pause. Then she started ramming me with her door in a desperate attempt to get to me. LOL No kidding - I'm lying there on the ground and I'm watching this whole thing like it's slow motion. Then - I swear - in an act so physically funny that I wish I had it on tape: The old lady makes the MOST AWKWARD "jump" into her backseat and starts trying to get out the back door.
By this time several people came over and pulled me up off the road (probably not the best idea in retrospect but I was kind of out of it Well she eventually made it out and came over to me to start screaming "Are you OK?" I said "F*ck NO I'm not OK!!! I just slammed into your car!!!!"
Couldn't resist telling that story. :gaming: So I do agree. Sometimes they see you. However I do think it's a good idea to look them in the eyes.

 

[Rex D.]

What I do when approaching an intersection or driveway with someone ready to pull out is not just look at the driver and do nothing else, I get my foot and hand ready to hit the brakes. Go from "relax and enjoy the ride" mode to "get ready to react" mode.

 

[Phil_RC_1]

I ride in traffic every day. If I foresee myself getting trapped I'm out of there. When traffic slows to 30 or below I'm lane splitting. I also use high beams in the day. And last but not least, I try to be a courteous rider so as to somewhat change the negative perspective some people have of "bikers".

Always be vigilant! Not aggressive

I also typically do not like moving at the same speed as all the traffic around me. Maybe like 5 or so mph faster than traffic, to always be moving out of somebody's blind spot, and to keep visible to the obliviots (oblivious idiots) on the road in their cars, talking on their cell phones, changing radio stations, yelling at their kids (spouse), and so on....

You guys are putting out some awesome defensive techniques, but I think the bike itself can be made more "defensive" also.

WHY do cagers constantly say "I didn't see the bike, so I pulled out"? or "I didn't see the bike so I didn't stop"?

My opinion is that MOST cagers commute and drive while mentally on "autopilot" not really thinking about or being aware of their surroundings. I believe that subcontously, people will relate a colored amber light to "a vehicle" where as the single white headlight may be registered subcontously as a flash of sunlight or even just ignored.
Our bikes have a headlight that's aklways on, but still pepople pull out in front of bikes. I like to add some sort of high wattage amber/yellow driving lights to any bike that own. I even have those rainbow cages that mount in the headlight to provide a little multi-color hue to the headlight.

From the rear, at a minimum, I wire in dual element (1157's) rear turn signals to function as brake/turn. Just going down the road, since I'm moving at the same speed or faster then trasffic, I could really care less if the cager sees me from the rear, BUT when I'm STOPPING or slowing, I want to make it planely obvious that I'm stopping. I also flash my brake light at least once before I actually brake. Since bikes slow very quickly from engine compression (just by letting off the throttle) it's also a good idea to pull your brake lever in just enough to activate the brake light even though you are only slowing due to releasing the throttle.

I never think that "it'll never happen to me", but a thurough understanding and implimentation of defensive riding will go a long way to becoming a happy "old" rider.

 

[romr]

Hmm, but if I identify, plan, decide, and execute them isn't that premeditated murder?
JK.

A big +1 to that!
Also----

The main thing I learned from my MSF course (which was over 10 years ago...YAY memory!!) was the term SIPDE;

S- Scan. I am always scanning the road ahead. Always...keep your eyes moving, scanning the road and pertinent surroundings to effectively see danger ahead. (don't be focused so much on the dog walking beside the road that you fail to see the dog in the middle of it)
I- Identify. Identify potential 'issues' in your immediate area. As in, left turning vehicles, road hazards, intersections (which are always a high tension situation), etc.
P- Plan. Plan to make necessary changes in your original course. Plan on that dummy putting on her makeup to perform a 3 lane sweep right across your front wheel.
D- Decide. Determine what you will do once that bonehead does the "dumb-ass move of the day" right on front of you. (ie: slow down, change lanes, accelerate).
E- Execute. Execute the necessary action to safely and effectively avoid danger.

If I get through all 5 steps on this, I have added a 6th step, which is typically honk the horn, or a F--K YOU stare, maybe even communicate with them the F--K YOU finger (for the hearing impaired).

Always be vigilant! Not aggressive, just aware and assertive in your intentions. The "Decide and the Execute" part are typically higher than average amongst motorcyclists, what gets us in trouble are the first 3 steps. These come with practice, attention and of course with that comes experience.

I also typically do not like moving at the same speed as all the traffic around me. Maybe like 5 or so mph faster than traffic, to always be moving out of somebody's blind spot, and to keep visible to the obliviots (oblivious idiots) on the road in their cars, talking on their cell phones, changing radio stations, yelling at their kids (spouse), and so on....