5 dead in SoCal crash involving 7 motorcycles

What terrible story but all too common I'm afraid. People are just in too much of a rush to get nowhere. It's not only in CA but all across the nation. With a 65mph limit, how much quicker do you need to go?! My prayers go out to the victims and their families.
 
Oh man that is terrible! And unlike in some other instances the motorcyclists were the innocent victims in this case.

This is one of the reasons that I'm not a big fan of riding in large groups. In my experience the potential for disaster is that much higher...
 
NJFZ1 said:
This is one of the reasons that I'm not a big fan of riding in large groups. In my experience the potential for disaster is that much higher...
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Would the outcome had been any less tragic if it was a group of 4-5 motorcyclists? It all depends on how you look at it, the pace and the roads being driven. I think in city/suburb driving there is a potential for better visibility in large groups.

When the pace picks up I prefer smaller groups. Though I can still imagine coming around a blind corner only to have a car in your lane passing another.

When the pace picks up and we go single file I drop back and create an excessive gap between me and the person in front of me. My buds may think I am a chicken. I like to think I am survivalist. ;) While tame to most the way I ride is plenty exciting to me.

I expect these were cruisers since the car was trying to get past. I can't help but wonder what could have been done by the bikers to prevent this? No, I am not being an a$$, this is an exercise I always do any time I hear about a bad accident. It may save my life one day. While others may be legally at fault in an accident I truly believe that 99% of all accidents can be prevented by our own defensive actions.

So to start my excercise they may have:
  • slow down, move to single file and to the right of the lane and motion to pass. Maybe create large gaps between the bikes to allow the car to come back in to the lane if another car is oncoming.

Any other thoughts?
 
Thats terrible. You never know the real story though, the bikes could have been going really slow and holding up traffic, or that Honda driver could just be an asshole.
 
It doesn't matter whether they were going slow or not. The point here is that NOTHING is SO important that you have the right to endanger other peoples lives or your own just to save A FEW MINUTES! It happens way to often. SLOW DOWN, ARRIVE ALIVE! I have engrained in my memory a dead woman, and her 7 year old dead son and 6 month old dead baby in the back seat, because she HAD to turn left, even when she could not possibly see the oncoming traffic. Had she waited a couple more seconds she would have had a protected green arrow and they all would have lived. Bad decisions. Eventually they cost you.
 
Well I am afraid my entire point is going to be lost here. It is not about fast or slow. It is not about right or wrong. My post is about us taking a moment to reflect in the hopes that we may not meet the same fate. My hope is that those who have gone before us doing what they love may still have something to teach us.

I still believe there is something to be learned from every single accident we hear about regardless of who is actually or legally at fault. In this case I 100% agree it is the impatient person passing that caused this and is legally responsible. That goes without saying. My heart aches for them and their families.

However, is there nothing we can learn other than "bad cager, bad cager"? That makes us no safer a driver. Do we really believe that there is absolutely nothing the bikers might have done defensively that may have saved them? I am not criticizing them at all. They had no clue what was going to happen. Does it mean that we cannot take a moment to dream up scenarios where it does not happen to us?

The worst that could happen in such an exercise is that we decide that nothing could have been done.
 
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BAD decisions

I have millions of miles of driving all over this continent (no exaggeration). I have seen some horrific scenes and had one terrible accident as a result of an oncoming impaired driver on a two lane highway. Even if opposing traffic is not "going that fast", the combined approach speeds are very fast. This sort of tradgedy can literally happen in a split second. Getting out of the way of a vehicle that suddenly swerves into your lane really isn't possible in most instances. Group riding just makes this more difficult, even if "safe" distance and a staggered pattern is used in the group. This is an unfortunate reality, as you can only control your own actions and not that of others. One driver's BAD decision caused the death and injury of many others. The only thing that can happen now is making that person pay the price for the horror that they caused.

Stories such as the news artical of topic should serve to remind us all that we have to be ever vigilate as riders. Even so, there are no gaurantees, but we can increase our chances by riding aware and alert. When I ride I assume that all the other drivers on the road are potentially out to kill me, and always have an escape route picked, especially when stopped at a light (I always have the bike in gear). I have had a few close calls including this past summer on my big trip when a Motorhome came around a blind corner in my lane. I was prepared to tighten my line and narrowly avoided him. This just comes down to experience and sometimes luck.

My thoughts go out to the families of those lost and injured.
 
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I didn't intend for my post to sound like it was their fault. I understand there is never a rush worth killing for but its possible they were going slow and the dude thought it was a great idea to pass them. Unfortunate turn of events, and I feel bad.

Or, he was just an asshole. I agree 100% with everyone here.
 
Oldschool said:
Stories such as the news artical of topic should serve to remind us all that we have to be ever vigilate as riders. Even so, there are no gaurantees, but we can increase our chances by riding aware and alert. When I ride I assume that all the other drivers on the road are potentially out to kill me, and always have an escape route picked, especially when stopped at a light (I always have the bike in gear). I have had a few close calls including this past summer on my big trip when a Motorhome came around a blind corner in my lane. I was prepared to tighten my line and narrowly avoided him. This just comes down to experience and sometimes luck.

My thoughts go out to the families of those lost and injured.
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Well said Oldschool, couldn't agree more.
 
Hail said:
Would the outcome had been any less tragic if it was a group of 4-5 motorcyclists? It all depends on how you look at it, the pace and the roads being driven. I think in city/suburb driving there is a potential for better visibility in large groups.

When the pace picks up I prefer smaller groups. Though I can still imagine coming around a blind corner only to have a car in your lane passing another.

When the pace picks up and we go single file I drop back and create an excessive gap between me and the person in front of me. My buds may think I am a chicken. I like to think I am survivalist. ;) While tame to most the way I ride is plenty exciting to me.

I expect these were cruisers since the car was trying to get past. I can't help but wonder what could have been done by the bikers to prevent this? No, I am not being an a$$, this is an exercise I always do any time I hear about a bad accident. It may save my life one day. While others may be legally at fault in an accident I truly believe that 99% of all accidents can be prevented by our own defensive actions.

So to start my excercise they may have:
  • slow down, move to single file and to the right of the lane and motion to pass. Maybe create large gaps between the bikes to allow the car to come back in to the lane if another car is oncoming.

Any other thoughts?
Click to expand...

I think you are correct there, that's the very first thing that popped in my mind, why didn't they automatically drop off one by one when they saw that jerk passing them? I think that's what I would have done just out of pure instinct. I'm not saying that would have changed the outcome but perhaps?
 
Oldschool said:
This sort of tradgedy can literally happen in a split second. Getting out of the way of a vehicle that suddenly swerves into your lane really isn't possible in most instances.
Click to expand...

I will continue to play devils advocate here. I still believe something is to be learned from this. As drivers of our cars we learn that we must be patient. There is nothing important enough in our own lives to risk the lives of others. That is the obvious one.

What else can be learned? We know that it would have been almost impossible to avoid that oncoming car. No doubt. Lets rewind a bit before that part of this tragedy. Admittedly, none of us know all the facts here so lets make a fictional one that could have the same end result.

Imagine riding in a group of 10 - 15. Your sweeper has someone behind him in a car seemingly agitated and riding his rear tire. What should he do? Should he slow down move to the right of the lane and let him pass? Or should he block to keep the group together?

Maybe they never even knew someone was behind them? I know people that spend a lot of time on the track that rarely look in the rear view mirror. Should we always be watching our 6 on public roads?

Before going on a group ride could we discuss just this scenario and make sure that everyone watches their 6 and lets faster folks through? Be it car or motorcycle?

Again I have no idea what the absolute facts are I still think this is a worthwhile exercise.

Like I said, the worst that can happen is that we decide there is nothing to be learned.
 
romr said:
I think you are correct there, that's the very first thing that popped in my mind, why didn't they automatically drop off one by one when they saw that jerk passing them? I think that's what I would have done just out of pure instinct. I'm not saying that would have changed the outcome but perhaps?
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Yeah, we do not know all the facts here. The guy might have been trying to pass for 30 minutes or so. We do not know. If that is the case my suggestion would be great. If he was just a total a$$ hat and passed in a blind turn there may not be much of anything that could be done.

Thinking of all the possible scenarios and wondering what could have been done does not mean we are passing judgment on anyone.
 
Hail said:
  • slow down, move to single file and to the right of the lane and motion to pass. Maybe create large gaps between the bikes to allow the car to come back in to the lane if another car is oncoming.

Any other thoughts?
Click to expand...
Here's another article about the same accident:
Five killed in California crash involving 12 motorcycles - CNN.com

There are so many points at which there could have been (or were) failures...
- The failure of the Civic Driver to judge time and distance to pass safely (if it was even a passing zone).
- The possible failure of the motorcycle riders to see the Civic attempting to pass (or to allow it to do so).
- The failure of the Dodge Avenger to stay on their side of the road.

I didn't see anything about if the motorcyclists were riding side by side or staggered. I also didn't see anything about the speeds that any involved were actually traveling.

I have experienced a few occasions where I came up on small riding groups who were aware of my presence and, assumedly - my desire to pass, but did not make any effort to facilitate it in a safer manner. It was frustrating to have the "me-me" attitude coming from both myself, and the other riders - I wanted to pass, and they didn't want to let me. With the FZ1 I easily could cross double yellow lines, or even pass between motorcyclists (which I have had others do to me) and passed without any accidents or misfortune, but I'm more interested in having a pleasant driving experience for myself, and if possible helping other drivers enjoy their experience as well. I try to wait longer, and for safer situations - especially when I'm "in a hurry".

This accident sucks for everybody involved.
 
This is a horrible thing for anyone to go through and a stern reminder that we need to be prepared at all times. So many lives are affected because one person was irresponsible...
 
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