help with funny noise

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coolzzy

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Hi all, I just got my new rear tire installed (stock size) and now have a new problem. Before I had the tire installed I had no issues other than the big flat spot running down the middle of my rear tire. Well I got the new tire on, and since it was taller from being new I had ot adjust the chain tension (loosen it up a little) to be in spec. While I had the bike in the air I figured I'd clean all the gunk off my chain as well using WD40 as i've seen reccomended everywhere.

So I got the chain all shined up and de gunked and I take it for a Spin. Immediately I notice a clicking noise coming from my front sprocket cover. I put it back on the stand and spun the rear wheel and could just notice a faint clicking once the wheel got moving fast enough. It sounds like a bearing going out, but is there a bearing behind the front sprocket? Doesn't it just bolt on? I removed the sprocket cover to make sure everything was there and the sprocket looked fine, no abnormal wear or rubbing so i'm stumped. The noise is loud enough that you can hear it riding next to me on another bike, kinda like small ball bearings. The noise is present in all gears including neutral and clutch pulled in, stops when the tire stops.

I thought maybe I had removed too much grease from the chain so I lubed it back up with white Lithium chain lube, let it sit overnight, then went out for a ride again with no change. Any idea what could be causing this? The only thing that has changed is the new rear tire (which makes a HUGE difference in corners compared to what I had been riding with) and a clean chain. I adjusted the chain slop per the manual so i've got about 3/4" play in each direction midway between the sprockets on the center stand from the tightest point in the chain. Torqued the rear axel nut down to 108ft/lbs, the noise seems to be localized at the front sprocket cover though......
 
Sounds like the chain is too tight. The sag from top to bottom should be more than "about 3/4" in each direction." Check the chain for proper sag and also make sure the wheel is aligned. Measure both sides from the center of the swingarm pivot to the center of the rear axle.
 
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as one who learned the hard way -- the chain is to have 40-50mm (1.57-1.97 inches) slack to be in spec. I drastically shortened the life of my chain by having too tight.

Plus, if it has sat for a while, you may have tight links which cause the chain to not track properly causing the clicking noise you describe.

Check wheel alignment, and don't use the marks indicated in the swingarm. Use either a high quality metric ruler or a good set of calipers.

you running a OEM chain or a 520 conversion?

Adam
 
well it turns out it was a bit too tight. I had my neighbor sit on the bike and the chain pulled taught. I loosened the chain to the point of where if pushed hard it can touch the plastic gaurd on the bottom of the swingarm. BUT, i can still hear the noise when accelerating, but the noise is completly gone when coasting. Did I ruin a bearing? I'm afraid to make the chain any looser for fear of it falling off. I had it looser and I think the noise was gone but it clanked when engaging the throttle and coming on the gas as the chain was pulled tight. Is it that fine of a point where a hair in or a hair out past the optimal spot will allow it to make noise and wear out ?
 
its an OEM 44 tooth rear sprocket. Should that play be measured when on the center stand, or on kickstand, or under load (with weight on the bike)? The chain is super clean, and I've re-lubed it, it makes little if any noise coming onto the rear sprocket.
 
I do my measurement from the centerstand. Find a link connection that gets me in the center of the starting measurement and then push up from there -- usually about 25-30mm and then pull down a bit to get the remainder....usually average about 43mm in total.

Do you know how many miles are on the chain -- b/c it sounds like you may have some tight links....

Adam
 
I think the chain is OEM, if its original it has 8300 miles on it. It moves very easily though, none of the links bind or anything, and i've been lubing it probably excessivly to ensure it stays that way. Are the marks on the swingarm incorrect? How else would you determine alignment without taking it to the shop? Determing precisesly the distance between the swingarm pivot center and axle center is not easily done with a tape measure and by this nature not very exact either. If I get a set of calipers, can I safely measure from the end of the swingarm slide area to the square block the axle slides in and assume that the ends of the swingarm should be machined to the same length? I did notice that I put both blocks in facing the opposite direction they were in originally, but i just assumed they were the same length from the center to either side.....
 
You'll want to measure from a known good point forward of the wheel to the axle of the wheel and can do this any number of ways so long as it is the same measurement on both sides. Measure from the trailing edge of the swingarm pivot point to the front of the adjuster block... as an example.

The marks on the adjustment and swingarm are to get you in the vicinity of proper alignment but an accurate measurement is the only way to be sure. Hope this helps!
 
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I have a metric rules that has 1mm increments and .5mm increments (it also does 32nd and 64th)

The marks that are stamped in the back of the swingarm look to be in 1/8" increments. I measured my distance from the block to the rear of the swingarm and had a distance of 27mm on both sides (location represented on by the orange line above). If you only used the marks on the swingarm, it is a good possibility that you are off in being equal distance on both sides. 1mm or more could cause you to bind and instead of being in the middle of the chain, you could be off to one side causing it to bind slightly.

If you have the chain too loose, you can get chain slap where it hits the lower side of the swingarm -- to make you feel at ease, I went 1200 miles before I tightened my chain (noise/chain slap/through water/dust), by then the damage was already done (you think that I would of known better from riding mountain bikes and the similar maintenance that needs to be done on them....) You live, you learn, you try not to make the same mistake.....

there are different ways to skin a cat, this is what I've found to work for me....
 
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It sounds like your noise is chain related but without knowing the amount of wear or the type of maintenance it has had, it's pretty hard to know the actual condition of the chain itself. If the adjusters are moved a lot from the stock "new" location, the chain is probably worn to the point I'd be replacing it. A trick I used to use was to take the chain off, hold it so that the links are perpendicular to the ground and see how much "sway" is in the chain. If it has a lot of curve, it is in need of replacement. In other words, if it can't retain a relatively straight line and instead cruves a lot, the pins and plates are worn. By the way, the service manual for my 08 says a TOTAL slack midway in the chain of .98-1.38" with the wheel elevated. Thats from the top of the movement to the bottom of the movement. I keep my chain within those specs, lube it every 600 miles with chain wax, except when I'm on a trip ( I have gone 1200 miles without maintenance). I also ALWAYS clean it with a Ketten Max and kerosine or fuel oil. I have over 11,000 miles on my chain and I doubt I have had to turn the adjusters more than a half turn since I bought the bike (total).
 
go down the chain 1 link at a time... inspect it for wear.. for flat spots on the rollers, lift and release the chain in small sections.... see if any of the links stay kinked after releasing.... then, check the sprocket for wear... if you don't feel comfortable making the call on the sprocket, break out the camera, using the Macro feature on your camera, take a nice close-up picture and post it on here... we'll talk about it.
 
Gen I specs are different from Gen II -- says on profile '02

Might someone be able to elaborate as to why one Gen has one set of specs and the 2nd gen have a smaller set of specs?

Adam
 
BroHay said:
Gen I specs are different from Gen II -- says on profile '02

Might someone be able to elaborate as to why one Gen has one set of specs and the 2nd gen have a smaller set of specs?

Adam
Click to expand...

Probably has to do with the fact that Gen II has a longer swingarm...
 
I would assume that because of different length of swingarm, and different bike geometry, the chain tension changes differently when weight is on the bike... which would lead to different adjustment specs.
 
UPDATE:
after a few hours in the garage tonight i'm getting a little frustrated. I took the rear tire back off the bike, inspected the bearings, spacers, sprocket etc. Cleaned the rear sprocket and all teeth are identical, appears brand new. Bought a Caliper today and used it to make sure i was aligned correctly from the rear of the swingarm to the block on both sides, as well as counted the number of threads/turns out of the adjusters. Everything matched up.

Checked chain tension again both on the center stand and with someone on it, I've got between 1.75 and 2" of play. Put it all back together and went for a spin, noise still there and loud as ever. It is only there when on the throttle, even just a hair on the throttle and it comes back. Clutch in and it goes away, cannot be heard on decel. in gear either. Took it up to 100 to hit all gears, noise present and same noise level at all speeds.

Are there just a single spacer on each side of the rear tire (plus of course the brake mount on the right side)? Any reason another spacer would be there to move the tire to center? Only reason i ask is that i notice that the rear sprocket seems to be on the inside of the center of the chain. I can spin the wheel a few times, then stop it and push the chain in towards the center on the sprocket, but not out. Spin it again and it returns to same position. I'm 99% confident in the rear alignment. appreciate all the help so far! I'm about ready to take it to the dealer and pay $100 bucks for an inspection though I'd really rather not cause I need the cash to buy a new jacket....
 
Took some pictures just now. The flash hit the sprocket and made it flash, its not worn like that. There is grease in the picture of the right from the axle, its not glue or epoxy :eek:)

The chain has liberal amounts of chain lube/wax, it is not dirty.

Let me know what you think or if a more specific picture would help, thanks!
 
Well, based on your latest description, meaning only happening with the clutch engaged and under load, it is highly unlikely it is the chain. A guy in the FZ6 forum had a similar issue and it turned out to be a broken clutch plate. When the clutch was engaged, the broken piece(s) were "grabbed" and hitting the casing inside. When the clutch was disengaged, the pieces came to rest and were not banging around. Under load, the broken pieces were forced outward with centrifical force.

Not saying this is the issue, but it's worth a look. It means some disassembly after draining the oil.
 
I just went down to look at my bike -- it has roughly 2,500 on the chain and I have close to 11 marks showing to the rougly 7 marks you have.

The standard measurment from the service manual for 10 links is 5.91 inches -- the maximum is 6.00. I believe that you chain has exceeded the later measurement.

I'm learning/investigating with ya, but it is my opinion that you are in need of new chain/sprockets.

I'd take a picture, but all the goodies are at the office -- so I'll come up with something tomorrow....

Adam
 
Now your scaring me with the broken internal pieces. Went and did a ride again, it shifts nicely though, no hangups between gears. I just can't believe the amazing coincidence that could cause this to happen after i swapped out my rear wheel, was great and quiet before that. Would it be possible to remove the chain and put the bike in gear to see if the front sprocket spins in gear with no noise? I looked but didn't see a master link to break the chain, so this means i'm assuming the front sprocket must come off to remove the chain? My front sprocket looks just like the back one, no evident wear. I just assumed that if there were plenty of marks left on the swingarm that the chain was still good? anyone else have the same spacing left as mine?
 
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