Major Engine Failure

OK, got home from work and tore into it. First thing I did was start the bike up and felt the pipes to see which one wasn't firing. Cylinder #1 was cold to the touch. So I started by moving the rad back too get at #1 and unplugged the other three coils. I removed the #1 coil and spark plug and cranked the motor over to check for compression and I get a spray of fuel from the spark plug hole and it keeps pulsing out every time the piston comes to the top. I start thinking fuel injector and pull the tank and air filter up. I removed the fuel rail and all four injectors then with the injectors installed in the fuel rail and wires attached turned the key on to check for leaks. Number 1 injector immediately starts spraying fuel all the time the system is priming and the other three remain dry. I switch the #1 for the #2 injector and try it again. #1 injector position is still spraying fuel in the swapped injector. I then decide to unplug my Juicebox Pro and run straight from the ECM and the problem goes away. I've contacted the company to get warranty, it's only 3 months old. The thing that got me was this morning the oil coming from the exhaust. It was dripping from the pipe and when I rubbed my fingers through it, it feel slippery and had a dark colour like oil. Anyhow glad things turn out the way they did and thanks to everyone for your suggestions and help.

:yes::thewave:
 
I see at least 4 engines on Ebay now from $950 to $1500. Considering shop rates these days its a cheaper option unless your doing the work yourself.

( if you have major damage )
 
Cool, but that doesn't explain the oil... remove the other plugs and change oil at least. If you are the luckiest man on earth... maybe the injector just flood the engine... Check your oil level! If it piss enough fuel in the crankcase the oil might level should be very high and have flow out the breather into the airbox. Regardless... change oil before you even start the bike again... Bet you its full of gas!

One more thing... buy a PCV! LOL
 
Ruggybuggy said:
OK, got home from work and tore into it. First thing I did was start the bike up and felt the pipes to see which one wasn't firing. Cylinder #1 was cold to the touch. So I started by moving the rad back too get at #1 and unplugged the other three coils. I removed the #1 coil and spark plug and cranked the motor over to check for compression and I get a spray of fuel from the spark plug hole and it keeps pulsing out every time the piston comes to the top. I start thinking fuel injector and pull the tank and air filter up. I removed the fuel rail and all four injectors then with the injectors installed in the fuel rail and wires attached turned the key on to check for leaks. Number 1 injector immediately starts spraying fuel all the time the system is priming and the other three remain dry. I switch the #1 for the #2 injector and try it again. #1 injector position is still spraying fuel in the swapped injector. I then decide to unplug my Juicebox Pro and run straight from the ECM and the problem goes away. I've contacted the company to get warranty, it's only 3 months old. The thing that got me was this morning the oil coming from the exhaust. It was dripping from the pipe and when I rubbed my fingers through it, it feel slippery and had a dark colour like oil. Anyhow glad things turn out the way they did and thanks to everyone for your suggestions and help.

:yes::thewave:
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The fuel dumping into the cylinder may have gas washed and damaged your rings, contaminated the sump and ruined the bearings or even bent a rod if the cylinder filled with fuel. I'd really have a close look at the engine before you contact Juicebox so you know just what they should be paying you for. I'd think about having a shop confirm that the juicebox is the problem ( and get it in writing )


EDIT : I'd take some video of that injector with and with out the juicebox hooked up. You may need some evidence :)
 
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super googan said:
The fuel dumping into the cylinder may have gas washed and damaged your rings, contaminated the sump and ruined the bearings or even bent a rod if the cylinder filled with fuel. I'd really have a close look at the engine before you contact Juicebox so you know just what they should be paying you for. I'd think about having a shop confirm that the juicebox is the problem ( and get it in writing )


EDIT : I'd take some video of that injector with and with out the juicebox hooked up. You may need some evidence :)
Click to expand...

Ditto on the above. Working with an aftermarket supplier and getting them to admit a problem is hard. Also what you thought was oil was likely carbon and gasoline mix along with a little oil off the cylinder chamber. I would double check compression to make sure you don't have a bent rod. I would also worry about oil contamination. A quick way to tell is pulling the caps off the rods, then look for abnormal galling. Odds are you should be ok in that regard, but since you rode it while it was dumping fuel. It wouldn't hurt to check. Glad you found the problem by the way.
 
When it happened I pulled over then rode it home for maybe a maximum of 2 miles. I drained the oil tonight and didn't notice any fuel smell in the oil so I'm pretty confident that bearings, cylinders and rods are OK. The motor never hydraulic locked and actually ran smoothly without any abnormal noises, just a lot of smoke. I will check the compression after it's running to confirm I don't have a problem. A little on my history, I'm actually a Class A automotive technician and have seen this scenario occur with automotive engines without issue. Even after a compression test if found the a problem it would be a very uphill battle to get Juicebox pay for it. How would you prove that the compression problem was a result of there product? With used motors selling for $900-$1500 dollars it would be easier for me just to replace the motor. Don't get me wrong, I will be calling them in the morning with my issue.
 
Hopefully everything works out well. Stick with tried and tested devices like PC3/5. This is another reason I am leery of piggyback controllers and giving too much power to tamper the fueling to the user i.e., US.
 
CrazyBiker said:
Hopefully everything works out well. Stick with tried and tested devices like PC3/5. This is another reason I am leery of piggyback controllers and giving too much power to tamper the fueling to the user i.e., US.
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Juicebox Pro is made by Powercommander. The PCV and Juicebox Pro are the same box but a different variation. I now do wonder about the reliability of these fuel controllers. Anyone else ever have a failure of their PCV or Pro?
 
Initially they said it was toast. Then I gave them a bit of a hard time with their finicky controllers and the unintuitive firmware upgrade procedures. Apparently, many ignition modules have also know to have much more issues than PCs. Then one day it magically showed up at my door fixed with the $25 fee refunded.
 
Ruggybuggy said:
I now do wonder about the reliability of these fuel controllers. Anyone else ever have a failure of their PCV or Pro?
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My PCV failed within about a month of buying my bike from a dealer, they diagnosed it and replaced it under warranty for me.

My symptoms were engine missing & surging in mid rpms, cutting out at idle, poor starting, i thought i had a serious engine problem - i was shitting bricks lol
 
jmc said:
My PCV failed within about a month of buying my bike from a dealer, they diagnosed it and replaced it under warranty for me.

My symptoms were engine missing & surging in mid rpms, cutting out at idle, poor starting, i thought i had a serious engine problem - i was shitting bricks lol
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Been there, done that! :cuss:
 
Ruggybuggy said:
When it happened I pulled over then rode it home for maybe a maximum of 2 miles. I drained the oil tonight and didn't notice any fuel smell in the oil so I'm pretty confident that bearings, cylinders and rods are OK. The motor never hydraulic locked and actually ran smoothly without any abnormal noises, just a lot of smoke. I will check the compression after it's running to confirm I don't have a problem. A little on my history, I'm actually a Class A automotive technician and have seen this scenario occur with automotive engines without issue. Even after a compression test if found the a problem it would be a very uphill battle to get Juicebox pay for it. How would you prove that the compression problem was a result of there product? With used motors selling for $900-$1500 dollars it would be easier for me just to replace the motor. Don't get me wrong, I will be calling them in the morning with my issue.
Click to expand...

Ok, good to know. Really, evidence of the juice box forcing Injector #1 to over fuel should be evidence enough. Could have easily hydrolocked or burned a hole in the piston. However having a shop diagnose in writing would also help. The biggest thing would be going public. Youtube, forums, magazines etc. Juice box (Two bros) is trying to give Dynojet a run for their money, I doubt they would enjoy that publicity. Otherwise you're s.o.l.

All piggyback fuel controllers have a history of failure. Including PC's, they usually scramble the maps or zero out. I've had it happen on one of my old GSXRs. Dynojet was kinda of a pain, but the dealer made good with a new one. Good luck with them.
 
Two Bros is not competing with Dyno Jet. In fact the Juice box pro is made by Dyno jet for Two Bros. It is basically a rebadged PC5 with different features and price to attract a different customer base.
 
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