What rear suspension setup would you suggest?

fisherman322 said:
I wouldn`t be changing the fork springs until I set the sag,and did some adjustments to suit your riding style,then ride it for a month or so,several thousand mile,use cable tie`s around the sliders to check the distance of travel,before I would decide on doing anything.
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Might be cheaper to approach it that way. I just know that during my crash one of the reasons I just didn't come up and get on the break is that after my back tire slid out, is I then let up on the throttle, this caused a nose dive. It scared me and I didn't want to get on the brake to avoid further sliding and on the flip side possibly throwing myself over the front. I guess if I knew how to drift a bike then I would have been fine.

I've been watching a lot of crashes and close calls lately. Most of the close calls the bike stays seated the whole time, and the crashes there is some weight redistribution going on usually forward on the forks and the back tire goes out lowside or they get tossed high side.

In my mind stiffer springs for a couple hundred bucks is worth it if I'm more securely riding down the road. The stock spring is setup at 0.920 kg/mm and my recommended rate is 1.062 kg/mm. That is at least 2 springs stiffer than the stuck. The stock spring is for a 150lb rider, I'm 250. If you can explain to me that through manipulation of the stock suspension adjustment that it can acount for approximately 3 standard deviations from the median and I would still be safe it's worth not changing. .
 
Sudden changes in throttle input are the number one cause of cornering crashes.

Learning and practising proper throttle control was the single most important thing I did to improve my cornering speed, smoothness, confidence and especially my control in slippery situations.

I suspect you could have covered your bike in Ohlins springs and you would have still crashed. :sport12:
 
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As you say, you are going to take it easy for awhile so they should not be a problem,I try to avoid the urge of changing things to quickly when buying a new bike,I guess I am a measure twice cut once type of bloke
 
fisherman322 said:
As you say, you are going to take it easy for awhile so they should not be a problem,I try to avoid the urge of changing things to quickly when buying a new bike,I guess I am a measure twice cut once type of bloke
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Yeah, that makes sense. Me too usually, but literally 2 days before I crashed I was preparing to buy the springs.
 
Dustin said:
Sudden changes in throttle input are the number one cause of cornering crashes.

Learning and practising proper throttle control was the single most important thing I did to improve my cornering speed, smoothness, confidence and especially my control in slippery situations.

I suspect you could have covered your bike in Ohlins springs and you would have still crashed. :sport12:
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I would agree, I did come off the throttle more than I had been accustomed to, in part it was an over reaction to the sudden change from the rear end sliding out. I had been practicing throttle control since day 1.

But give me a break, you're telling me that if you have a more firmly seated motorcycle that doesn't provide such great variance in riding performance you wouldnt' perform better. Sorry for the multi-negative sentence but a more firmly seated motorcycle is going to perform better regardless of rider input. On top of that it's going to provide confidence to the rider because you can trust the bike more knowing that if in a pinch you let off the throttle or grab too much brake you're not going to kiss the windshield.

The half second I lost renegotiating my body position due to the nose dive could have been enough for the save either by not taking up more time though recalculating the next maneuver or allowing me feel like I could safely brake. Alas, I don't want to get myself into the situation again so I'll do the springs and go earn another $200 then sleep well after it all.
:sport12:Deuces on that.
 
I ask you this: If you were on a shiny new R6 or GSX-R 600 with unquestionably much better suspension; would you still have crashed?

I see what you're saying and I'm glad you are interested in getting your suspension dialled in. You have a great attitude towards all this :)
 
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Dustin said:
I ask you this: If you were on a shiny new R6 or GSX-R 600 with unquestionably much better suspension; would you still have crashed?

I see what you're saying and I'm glad you are interested in getting your suspension dialled in. You have a great attitude towards all this :)
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D, I wish you lived down here cause I think we could have a lot of fun debating the nuances of just about anything.

I would have went down faster on an R6 or GSXR 600, a lot faster. The issue was not having the right setup for the road I was on. A forward aggressive riding position mixed with a hypersport tire was just bad news. I was leaned in, partial tuck and countersteering to boot. My friends that came up behind me were more or less upright (G650GS and Fz6). Well the Fz6 guy was leaned in and when he saw me on the side he came up. They didnt' slide.

The thought of the whole experience is actually what led me to asking about the DRZ400S type setup. If I had knobby/enduro tires, and a slightly more forgiving throttle then I think I would have been fine, probably could have had a lot of fun sliding around the corner and or trying to drift it.

An email from one of the riders I've gone out with before put it like this after I told them I went down on that road
"Plus the road is for CRAP! I think they are letting to road go to hell just to keep the bikers off of it. It's really no fun to ride. So when you get your new bike please stay off that road..."
 
Forget Drifting on your bike!!!!! your not going to learn this with any success street riding and have a nice bike or your life by the time you do.

You said you were afraid to pull your front brake for the fear of going over? I say learn to ride. your front brake along with your back is 100 percent of your stopping ability. 70% of your stopping is in the front. Standing on your back brake alone may been what started your bobble and not so much lose gravel in the middle of the lane. Your crash according to your video is the classic sounds of back end skipped out a little and I stood the bike up and didnt know how to recover.
Its not new and you not the first or the last that this will happen to. I say slow down learn to ride.
You have 2000 +- miles under your belt with a crash. And your buying a bigger bike and already wanting to improve it in hopes to ride better? Your own lack of skills will kill you. Your following your thoughts not trained and practiced riding instinct than can only come from seat time.

I need to stop reading your stuff its making me bite might lip clean off my face. I wouldnt even speek if I wasnt afraid your going about riding the wrong way.
All I hear or feel like i hear is what can I do to be able to learnt to ride fast?
My answer "Learn the fundamentals of riding and apply them at controlable speeds. This way when you need to make an adjust for unforseen road conditions your will instinctivly make the right move.
Suspension set up days ist still track days. You may take something away from that track and it may eat you alive on the street two different animals. Im in no way saying you shouldnt set your bike up for your hight and weight that is natural.

Look at it this way, if your bike is willing to step out at slow speeds because the suspension is not great at least you werent going as fast as you would be if it was handling better and you were still still pushing the edge because you have know idea where that edge is. You will only crash harder.
Your video put you 50 ft from disaster and to read today you didnt even pull the front brake unil you were in the dirt on the shoulder makes me really wander what good advice you really need.
Sorry for my rant but Im telling you practice riding and defensive riding first.
Learn to trust you not the set up.

I know I suck at typing and spelling so please read through it.
Ride safe the speed will come.
 
Here's the thought process I went through my crash for discussion sake.

"Slow down for big corner, already hit gravel back there."
"Crap, there's the uneven road."
"Chose line and maintain speed, keep the bike seated/squatted."
Back tire slides out.
"Ohhh $hit."
"squeeze knees, stay on bike, loosen upper body/grip, go with it."
"Stood me up, lost my line."
"Ohhh $hit, cliff."
"let off throttle" Let off throttle," Ohhh shit nose dive."
"crap, now what, will slide/fly over if brake hard." "Redirect."
Start leaning back in blip throttle to squat back in corner
"lean, lean, lean, shit, target fixing on white line."
"look up into middle of road."
"$hit, $hit" in the gravel, too late"
"lean back into hill and try to get back onto road"
"Ohhh $hit, no more shoulder."
"Brakes, Brakes, brace for impact, lay bike into hill."
"Hold on to bike so I don't fly too far."

So as you can see there are at least 6 things I could have changed. 1) pick the appropriate machine for the ride. 2) don't lean on crappy slick, uneven roads. 3) Learn better throttle control and not come off so abruptly in bad situations. 4) Better suspension so the bike is more balanced. 5) Get comfortable braking (MSF braking drill) in un-ideal situations 6) No target fixation, look where you want to go.

As I see it there are 3 main categories to address. First, is situational awareness. Second, is rider experience/skill. Third, is proper bike/bike setup. I plan to address each category in the following manner. I won't ride on crappy roads at dusk if I can chose it, and I will ride even more cautiously than I did. I will spend more time getting familiar with my bike and it's abilities. The BRC2 class is the day after I get my bike and plan on enrolling. I will make sure I have the propoer setup for my machine. Throwing money into rider training classes and into the motorcycle are the easiest way to increase skill and bike faster. Seat time in many conditions is slower but also will play a huge role. On the Fz6 forum they have a mileage challenge each year where you photo your Odometer at the start of your riding season and at the end of the year. I want to win.

I don't look at having the proper suspension setup as an automatic means of going faster, I guess it may give me a false sense of confidence and I'll go faster. But, the main idea is to keep my ass in the seat and the shiny side up.

BTW not all drifting is high speed. I have been watching videos where these guys are doing it low speed with a lot of control. I just admire the control during an unintended/intended slide situation.

Also, I'm trying to work on proper use of emoticons:surrender: to signify when I am joking/not serious vs serious. :teeter:
 
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I'd like to add to this that there aren't any stock-off-the-showroom-floor Japanese bikes that have a suspension capable of handling a rider over 200 lbs. These bikes are all designed for the average man in the world, not the average American. I weigh about 230 fully geared up. With the stock FZ1 forks, I did not have enough adjustment to set a proper static sag, thus it was an absolute *must* to upgrade at least the springs. Of course, I have to work on that this winter because I didn't cut enough spacer out, but at least I know I'm at the other end of the spectrum.

And putting the Penske on the rear was a night and day difference. Speed aside, I could instantly feel the difference in corners. The bike wants to corner now rather than me forcing it to. A slight nudge of counter-steer and the bike is well into the entry and ready to go to max-lean angle.

When the rear is too soft :eek: then the bike will skip/studder with the stock shock. The extra weight I carry (I'm big boned!) along with not enough rebound settings to play with and too soft a spring, the bike's rear tire spends too many fractions of a second off the asphalt than a rider wants/needs. With the proper set up for my gravity-challenged physique, the rear stays in near-constant contact with the ground thus "planted" which means more traction when it counts.

Ever hit a deep corner that was a washboard? I did with the stocker and with Norm behind me, we skipped/studdered right out over the double-yellow into the oncoming lane. After getting the bike set up, I wanted to try that corner again... same washboard effect and I barely lost 2' of lane with a much reduced skipping thanks to Traxxion Dynamics and Penske. The bike is just so much more responsive and enjoyable.

Now, if I was around 170 geared up (and looking like a skeleton with skin pulled over it?) then the stock suspension would have enough adjustments and spring weight to allow me to set it up properly. But I'll guarantee that anyone our weight will run out of adjustments before finding proper sag. ;)
 
At 190 geared up I regularly overheated the stock shock on a hot Texas day. The Penkse or Ohlins, nope, spot on. The OEM shock totally fades out on a hot day.

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Charles2007 said:
I changed my spring last season

fz1-spring_zps5a11efe9.jpg



The 130N/mm would translate to 742 lb/in or 13,25kg/mm

From what i have read on Wikipedia the 2006 FZ1 came with 700 lb/in rear spring and the 2007+ came with a 650 lb/in

I weight is at 275+ so the base suspension was really too soft for me
My sag was at 1 click from the max with the original spring and now I am running at the minimum setting and I am only getting 20% of sag instead of the 25% that I was looking for. Also I feel that the rear is too stiff

15.33 kg/mm is way too stiff , The original 700# spring (12,5kg/mm) would be my choice and I outweigh you quite a bit.

As far as installing the spring yourself, removing the rear shock can be done in a driveway with common tools. Replacing the spring requires a press and is best left to the shop. For the Olins spring, they has to machine a small spacer to fit it.
I purchased a rear shock assembly on the web. sent it to the suspension shop to have it re-spring. It took forever for them to receive the spring but I was still riding my original rear shock assembly. When I got my upgraded rear suspension, I swapped it and I adjusted my suspension
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I have an 06 FZ1 with original rear shock. I rode it commuting, hooligan, everything except track days for 24,000 miles now and I can tell you it feels like I am riding on a brick. I weigh 215 lbs and have it set to the least preload. I am pretty sure that stock 06 is 800lbs/inch compression pressure. I am looking for a softer rear shock before I need a chiropracter. I don't understand why someone would think a stock 06 doesn't have enough stiffness???
 
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