Generosity to a Fault or Genuine Moron

I called Norm last night and spoke with him about this among other things. I haven't spent NEARLY enough time with Norm, but in my time spent, I got to know a lot about him that he cannot put into posts or words.

Norm, you had every reason to believe that Daniel would do just fine out there. But, crap happens, accidents happen, be they a person other than you at fault or just your own bad judgement. In this case, Daniel used poor judgement but it was due to lack of experience.

Based on what I see for damage, it is clear that this was low speed and I can picture him pulling off, realizing his error in seeing the gravel, then grabbing a fist full of front brake and flipping the bike over and to the right where it appears to have slid not very far.

Guys, it is just a motorcycle. It's a material object. It can be fixed or replaced. The fact that it is still 100% operational is even better. This was a "successful" accident where Daniel, thank God, didn't get a scratch on him. Who cares about the bike? If Daniel is OK, the rest doesn't matter! I'm with Billy here because he nailed it. The boy wasn't being a hooligan, so cut him some slack and chalk it up to a life experience.

As for Norm, you are nothing outside of generous in this case. You knew something "could" happen and it is no different than had I been riding right beside you and dumped your C14. Norm knows the value of a human and the value of a motorcycle. There simply is no comparison. Daniel is OK. %$#@ the bike... it will be fixed and it will look 100% again.

This is just Normal Norm doing a normal Norm thing that is not outside of his norm. This is one of the traits that I wish we all possessed. Norm handled it just as I expected he would which is normal for Norm. :tup:
 
FZ1riderNY said:
Well, I wouldn't be that hard on him. The kid is a school kid which is what he should concentrate on. Now if he had put the bike down attempting a wheelie or rolling burnout, then I would agree 100% with you K. That would teach him to be responsible. In this case it was lack of experience on a "strange" bike which lead to the incident. So I think in this case we give him a pass. I'm sure he learned his lesson. Oh, not to mention that Norm is not without blame here too, which he alludes to. I myself, as a personal preference, do not lend my bike to anyone, period. I think I switched bikes with Dave (P.O.) once, and Tony one time in order to troubleshoot a noise. That was it. I would never ask to ride another person's bike as well. Just my personal tastes and everyone is different, and it doesn't make it right or wrong, but if you do lend someone your bike, you must be prepared for things like this to happen.

So let's cut this young man some slack this time and be happy that he is alright. At least he has gained one "mark" in the experience column!
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Wow, I am far from giving an advise to an adult person how to deal with his relatives. Sorry, if I was misunderstood. I was just speaking of principles. And one of those principles is "you brake it, you fix it". 19 years of age are quite sufficient to take responsibility. At this age I was in the army with a loaded assult rifle in my hands. So, a 19 years old boy is not a kid anymore and I do not think it will hurt that he takes a lesson of responsibility. Just the opposite - it will do him good. And I think this young man will feel much better and much like a man rather than a boy, if he takes part in fixing up the bike. Because it is not just the money, it is also the worries over the damages, time spent for dealing with the repair shop, downtime for the bike, etc. All those things are spared for the young man, and though they have no price-tags, they do have a cost.

But then again, this is a decision that everybody makes for himself and at his own discretion. I do not know Norm, but from his posts I can see that he is a reasonable person and I think whatever decision he has taken, it is in the best interest for both himself and his nephew's.

Cheers.
 
To many people pride themselves on their ability to get pissed off and angry in most any situation. Getting mad is easy and does not build character. In fact it detracts from character. Make no mistake about it.

It is those things in life that we do which are hard that build character and make us better people. Taking the high road is always the harder thing to do. Fighting our instincts is difficult. The fact that Norm can do this with such ease in a situation where so many of might take the low road speaks volumes as to what kind of person he is. Makes me wish I could get to know him a bit better.

A wise man once told me that "No one in the world has the power to make me mad. It is only I that can allow myself to become mad." Ironically, this was the GM of Kawasaki of Stafford where I bought my first motorcycle back in 1990. I enjoyed my talks with him.
 
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Parts and bikes and stuff are replaceable, nephews not so much. When I was a kid I damaged one of my dads' cars. I didn't have the means to pay for repairs so he had me help find the parts needed, then had me assist him in the repair work. The vehicle, a '56 VW, turned out great, better than it was. I got a lot from the lesson, maybe you two could figure some way to make this a positive experience. The fact that you have a young nephew who wants to spend time with you says a lot, Norm.
P.S. Nephew probably learned a lot about riding in a very short time after cleaning his shorts and thinking about it :jaw drop:
 
Hail said:
To many people pride themselves on their ability to get pissed off and angry in most any situation. Getting mad is easy and does not build character. In fact it detracts from character. Make no mistake about it.

It is those things in life that we do which are hard that build character and make us better people. Taking the high road is always the harder thing to do. Fighting our instincts is difficult. The fact that Norm can do this with such ease in a situation where so many of might take the low road speaks volumes as to what kind of person he is. Makes me wish I could get to know him a bit better.

A wise man once told me that "No one in the world has the power to make me mad. It is only I that can allow myself to become mad." Ironically, this was the GM of Kawasaki of Stafford where I bought my first motorcycle back in 1990. I enjoyed my talks with him.
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But the question is not about getting mad or angry. The question is about getting it right. I am sure that nobody is down for some miserable $1,200...
And yes, that's a way to help build a character - to make a young man realize that his actions and decision do have consequences that he might not like. Next time when he grabs a lended bike he will be much more cautious. And this could also save his life next time, luck is not always out there...

And while the uncle being generous and nice, I am surprised that the youngster did not offer whatever help he could offer in the first place. That would be something worthy to building his character. Because if my nephew crashes my bike and then offers whatever help he can offer, I would easily say "no" to his money and "yes" to his joining me to fix the bike (and that would be also nice because he will see that it is not just the money that counts... and get his hands a bit dirty, that is always useful when riding afterwards :) ). But if he says "Sorry, uncle, and please do not tell Mom and Dad..." I will have to teach him a lesson of life, which he will learn sooner or later anyway, but probably under much more unfavourable conditions.

But that's what I would do. And that's because I love my nephew and prefer that he grows up a man and not a sissy. And next time when he asks for the bike, I will lend it to him with no worries. Because now everyone sais to Norm "Oh, don't lend your bike to nobody (and especially to your nephew???)". Is that better for both of them? The nephew to be afraid to ever aks his uncle for the bike again and the uncle to be afraid that his nephew may ask for the bike and he has to say "no"? That's better?

If Norm decided otherwise, it is his decision and I am not judging it at all since he knows best what to do in his case and with his nephew.

And don't get me wrong - as I said before, the most important thing is that the boy is OK!!! I would give away my bike immediately if this would save somebody's life, especially family. But here we are not trading bike against life. We are talking about principles and behaviour. At least that's what I am talking about.
 
Hail said:
To many people pride themselves on their ability to get pissed off and angry in most any situation. Getting mad is easy and does not build character. In fact it detracts from character. Make no mistake about it.

It is those things in life that we do which are hard that build character and make us better people. Taking the high road is always the harder thing to do. Fighting our instincts is difficult. The fact that Norm can do this with such ease in a situation where so many of might take the low road speaks volumes as to what kind of person he is. Makes me wish I could get to know him a bit better.

A wise man once told me that "No one in the world has the power to make me mad. It is only I that can allow myself to become mad." Ironically, this was the GM of Kawasaki of Stafford where I bought my first motorcycle back in 1990. I enjoyed my talks with him.
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I've been telling Eric since our posts back and forth about my son and your cousin that I very much wanted to meet you. I will find a way my friend.
 
I'm Norm's "Brutha frum anutha Mutha" Sup yo! ;)

So, with these repairs, are we still planning to mod the bike when you get back? Some of the mods are free anyway.... others not so much! :D
 
Norm you folks up North are way too nice.....There is not a 19 year old on this planet that I would let ride my Bike...Not even an option I would have told him....These Bikes are far too dangerous to loan out on any occasion...
It's not about the Bike or the money; it's the fallout consequence if he wrecked it and got killed on it...If anyone wrecks my Bike it's gonna be me...
Were all human and sometimes we make bad decisions. I have made plenty in my 56 years on this Earth...
 
The main thing is your nephew survived and learned a valuable lesson that will hopefully make him a better rider. Unfortunatly your FZ1 took a beating in the process. But the bike is ok mechanically and you will have it back in A-1 condition in no time. I have a select few who I would let take my FZ1 for a ride but I have been riding with them for many years and know they will take very good care of my bike while they are on it. I also agree that you are definitely not a genuine moron, you are from what I can tell a good guy and a great uncle. Generousity is not a fault, it comes from having a big heart. You prooved this in how you handled the situation.

Take care,

Chad
 
I've raised my children and helped them raise their own (my grandchildren). If there is a personality trait that I see infecting my grandchildren's age group, it's the ability to decline to take posession of their own personal responsibility. The next most worrisome thing I see is when their parents make excuses for the shortcomings of their kids. It's not a matter of who was or was not at fault, it's a matter of who was responsible at the time of the incident. Either there is accountability or there isn't. It appears that unfortuneatly in this case, there isn't accountability on anyone's part, just a good heart on one person's part and the willingness to take advantage of it on the other's. The only way we learn as humans is to acknowledge and accept what other's consider acceptable applies to us. It is our job to be the teachers, not the enablers. I hate to be a hard-azz but if the welfare of the kid is really the concern here, helping him to make the situation right is the correct way to handle it. My dime's worth.
 
Lonerider59 said:
I've raised my children and helped them raise their own (my grandchildren). If there is a personality trait that I see infecting my grandchildren's age group, it's the ability to decline to take posession of their own personal responsibility. The next most worrisome thing I see is when their parents make excuses for the shortcomings of their kids. It's not a matter of who was or was not at fault, it's a matter of who was responsible at the time of the incident. Either there is accountability or there isn't. It appears that unfortuneatly in this case, there isn't accountability on anyone's part, just a good heart on one person's part and the willingness to take advantage of it on the other's. The only way we learn as humans is to acknowledge and accept what other's consider acceptable applies to us. It is our job to be the teachers, not the enablers. I hate to be a hard-azz but if the welfare of the kid is really the concern here, helping him to make the situation right is the correct way to handle it. My dime's worth.
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Well said, and worth more than a thin dime. Everyone is glad that the young man is unhurt, but there was damage to someone elses property so there is a responsibility to help fix it. Just reading the scenario I'd say Norm was 1/2 to 2/3 at fault for letting a young, pretty green rider take a high powered bike on a relatively long trip, and the nephew was obviously responsible for the crash. Life happens, of course, but at his age learning that actions have consequences is a huge lesson for his future. I don't think it is a 'no harm, no foul' situation. If it was me I'd have a talk with him and suggest that a part of the repair should be borne by him, even if it is a token payment per week or month. There are always ways to save a bit of money; fewer Starbucks, less eating out at Mickey D's, part time JOB, whatever. At this point the important action is to use the situation to build character in this young man.....letting him just walk away with a 'Sorry, Uncle Norm' isn't the right action, imo.
 
Evitzee said:
Well said, and worth more than a thin dime. Everyone is glad that the young man is unhurt, but there was damage to someone elses property so there is a responsibility to help fix it. Just reading the scenario I'd say Norm was 1/2 to 2/3 at fault for letting a young, pretty green rider take a high powered bike on a relatively long trip, and the nephew was obviously responsible for the crash. Life happens, of course, but at his age learning that actions have consequences is a huge lesson for his future. I don't think it is a 'no harm, no foul' situation. If it was me I'd have a talk with him and suggest that a part of the repair should be borne by him, even if it is a token payment per week or month. There are always ways to save a bit of money; fewer Starbucks, less eating out at Mickey D's, part time JOB, whatever. At this point the important action is to use the situation to build character in this young man.....letting him just walk away with a 'Sorry, Uncle Norm' isn't the right action, imo.
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I agree with you and Lonerider. I made a mistake in judgement and Thank God he didn't get hurt. I was a little disappointed he didn't offer to help pay but I learned an important lesson. I'll only loan out to my riding buddies now. The FZ1 is a very powerful bike and even though he's a great kid with a ton a dirt bike riding and a reasonable amount of on road riding the FZ1 kicks ass of anything he's ridden before. Thanks for your thoughtful comments.
 
rollnhot said:
Ouch, bike gets fixed and nephew learns valuable lesson. You have a great heart Norm.
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Thank you very much. I grew up fairly poor and I've always believed I should share my good fortune as an adult with my friends and family. I've always liked the idea of helping the people we run into every day rather than sending money to charities. But I do think both my nephew and I learned something about lending a motorcycle. I know I did.
 
Learning

One thing that they beat us to death with in Flight School is "There are old pilots and there are bold pilots but there are NO old, bold pilots".

It is imperative to teach, but not expect, that young folks understand the need for good judgement.

Discretion is the better part of valor. Be certain that they know that and that you expect that from them.
 
imho, the damage is consistent w his story. I went down @ 70 mph and.had similar damage. glad ur nephew is ok, but ur gonna have to bring the parental in on the situation. they deserve to know and ur nephew should pony up @ least half of the total bill. its what we used to do if someone beefed it on our dirt bikes. its just the right thing to.do
 
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