Stripped engine mount bolt

fz1uk

fz1uk

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Ok if you've followed my previous thread... I didn't think things would get worse but after I cleaned up the headers the best I could, I put the fairing back on and realised the left side (looking forwards) frame slider was just spinning and the other side was tight as a rock. The bike was cold and so I got my torque wrench -set it to the spec in the service book and put it on the bolt head... it span without any force at all. I put a jack under the exhaust and put a chock of wood between to support the engine. The bolt came out with ease and is fine but had the alu thread of the engine mount hole on the end. Had a look inside the hole... low and behold its stripped. If I knew I could swear on here.. now would be the time to do it.

How does this problem get fixed? so when I call the dealer I can sound at least a little informed. Also having only owned the bike for 2 days would you guys be kicking up a fuss too and get them to fix it at their cost or am I in for a bumpy ride. They've had to give me the legal 3 months warranty so do you think it would be covered? The dealer said it doesn't cover wearable parts but that's all he said. Just to give all the facts - they gave the bike a 12K mile service without even doing an oil and filter change.

I feel sick to my gut. I'll have my reliable and known to me Fz6 back now please. :surrender:

For those who haven't seen the other thread.. this bike is an '07 with 12k -13k miles.


Anyway, I hope some of that makes sense because tbh I feel a bit shaky at the moment about it all and don't know what to do.
 
I would expect a dealer would stand behind their sale, so I would give them a chance to make things right on this bike. If this was a private party I would think it would be all on you at this point. I think in your other post you said that the dealer thought an oil change ever 10K milies was adequate? If that is the case you have a real uphill battle on your hands.
 
As I understand it you purchased this from a dealer, and an engine mount bolt is a MAJOR deal. THEY need to fix this!!! I would assume they need to retap the mount, however they fix it, all you need to know is you have a stripped motor mount bolt hole and that's something that is NOT safe. Bring up the word safety a few times when you speak with them. After all, they allowed you to roll off the lot that way. Completely unacceptable.
 
Thanks all - will let you know how it goes speaking to the dealer tomorrow. As far as I'm concerned they waved me off on a bike that hadn't had a proper service as per yamaha requirement to recieve the 12K mile stamp in the book and put my girlfriends and my own lives at risk, not to mention the numerous people that have taken the bike out for test rides. Cheers for backing up my concerns and if the dealer decides this is nothing to do with them I will call trading standards and see what action can be taken. So glad I have access to another form of transport (a cage) to do my 200+miles worth of weekly commute till it gets fixed otherwise I'd be left really high and dry.

Thanks again and I have to say this forum has been really very helpful and friendly and I'm very glad to be a part of it and look forward to some normal FZ1 joy to discuss with you at some point soon!
 
Don't speak to the dealer, demand from the dealer that this be repaired properly. If they provided a warranty, exercise your rights and utilize that service to get issues with the bike fixed. Make sure you double-check their work too. When they claim to fix it, go to the shop, ask for their torque wrench and loosen the bolt and re-apply the torque to be sure it holds. Accept nothing less!
 
Well the news is - this morning the dealer accepted liability when I told him the problem and exactly how I found the problem with the engine bolt. His words were 'Yep absolutely that shouldn't be like that and we'll definitely fix that under warranty'. Then I got a call from him saying that he won't fix the issue and as far as they're concerned its nothing to do with them because I broke it by using the torque wrench whilst checking the bolt was correctly torqued. Apparently that has invalidated my right to exercise the warranty. He gave a whole host of other bum reasons and isn't interested in sorting out the issue as he said, all of his bikes receive the same treatment and this one under went a safety check just like the others.

I then received this email as summary of the problem:
_______________________
Dear John

Further to your email below and our conversation this morning I confirm the following:


1. The corrosion to the exhaust headers and studs is cosmetic and is within the range seen on a motorcycle of this age and mileage. That said, the condition is as you viewed and inspected the bike on your test ride and again a week later when you collected and rode the bike away.
2. The 'pitting' you reported on the discs is typically caused by pads adhering to the discs when parked up and is again commensurate with used motorcycles. I am advised that this does not impair braking performance or brake pad wear and may be removed by rubbing the discs with a fine wet and dry paper. The fact that your old bike did not exhibit this is probably due to your more regular use. Once again, this was something you accepted when you inspected the motorcycle prior to agreeing to purchase.
3. This morning you called in to advise that you attempted to re-tighten what you perceived to be a loose engine mounting (you observed that the crash-bung mounted through this fastening was rotating). It is entirely normal for crash-bungs to rotate - I have three bikes in the showroom that exhibit this. Bungs of this type are mounted on sleeves to facilitate their rotation as part of their design, although I note that the bungs on your old Yamaha are of a different design (i.e. do not rotate) so I can see how you made this assumption. Attempting to tighten them further would almost certainly result in damage to the motorcycle.

As you have attempted to tighten the fastener yourself I cannot assist you by way of warranty. As a responsible multi-franchised dealer we have a reputation to uphold and make comprehensive checks on all used motorcycles sold.

If you had reason to believe there was a defect with your used motorcycle you should've reported the matter to us as the retailer or sought the opinion of a suitably qualified engineer. That said, the bike was fully checked by our own workshops, inspected as part of the MOT testing process, valeted by an experienced motorcyclist and finally inspected by yourself prior to sale.

Because you have taken matters into your own hands we cannot establish if the right torque settings or procedure was applied. The fact that you were unaware that crash bungs can and do rotate and your confirmation that you attempted to tighten the fastener would suggest to us that you may have stripped the threads. Blade Group can therefore accept no responsibility on this matter and we would suggest you take the motorcycle to a suitably qualified engineer to have the damaged threads 'Helicoiled'

I understand that this is not what you want to hear and sympathise with your position, but I am sure you understand that we cannot be held responsible for actions beyond our control.



Steve Barker
Oxford Performance Centre

______________________________

Anyway, I'm going to talk to trading standards tomorrow to see if I can get the bike repaired by someone else and then recover the cost incurred from the Oxford Performance Centre and possibly even go through the small claims court to get it sorted.

Just angry about it now and can't believe I've been completely mislead and had my personal safety put at risk by this dealer.

I think I might also contact some well read biking magazines like MCN and see if they're interested in this story of negligence on the part of the dealer. If nothing else I want to make sure nobody else falls into the trap of buying a bike from these guys when their safety checks are obviously so poor.
 
So now I have to ask, what brand are your crash bungs? Does the other side that IS properly seated and not stripped rotate? If not, I'd ask them to explain away why the proper one doesn't.

I think you volunteered too much information. Perhaps you should have rode the bike in to them and asked them to check why it rotates and ask them to please be sure it was properly torqued. Then, they would have tried and found it stripped and had to fix it then.

Sorry this is such a mess for you though. I've not checked but where this bolt is stripped, does the now-non-threaded hole have a bottom to it or does it pass through like the FZ6 did? I haven't looked at mine like this. I know on the FZ6, a few had stripped the hole then just bought a longer bolt and put a nylon locking nut on the backside and torqued accordingly. I'm thinking this isn't the case with the FZ1 though. But it is a thought.
 
Well sorry to hear about how it turned out with the dealer, but it was not totally unexpected. They are your best friend until you ride out the door...

However, I do see his point to a certain extent. You have no way to prove (to the dealer) that the threads were stripped prior to you attempting to tighten the bolt. I guess your "mistake" was admitting that you had attempted to verify the torque settings on that bolt. And he's just going to assume that it was damaged by you. I'm sure a properly installed Heli-Coil repair will be fine as those types of inserts are even used in engine blocks where the cylinder head attaches and those bolts have a higher torque rating as you can imagine. Good luck getting it repaired...
 
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The crash bungs are R&G and as far as I can see the spacer between the crash bung and the frame is only there to add the required length for the crash bung to be far enough away from the frame. I also believe from what I see that the crash bung should not rotate atall if the bolt is properly torqued.. can someone verify this? The other side bung does not rotate and is solid. The thread hole does go all the way through to air on the other side of the engine mount if that is what you were talking about FZ1inNH.

I agree with both of you.. I was too honest but I have never felt a reason to lie and had definitely felt I had nothing to hide. I downloaded the service manual - read up on the bolt torque specs.. and set my torque wrench to the correct setting (so over tightening is impossible) and thats why I used a torque wrench. I don't see what I did wrong. I don't see how I've hurt that thread in any way by checking the same thing that the Yamaha service manual recommends. I even used the right calibrated tools! As soon as I put the socket on the bolt it span with no effort!

Maybe this is all a saving grace.. and I can now have the work carried out by someone I trust.

Anyway - I know you guys should give me a mental slap for telling him the truth and in hindsight it was stupid of me. I guess my naivety will forever catch me out if I remain truthful or atleast not holding back some of the facts when useful.. Sorry guys but I don't operate like that. Dumb - yes.. Feeling good about myself - win.
 
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No, no problem with what you did at all! But, it wouldn't be lying, just not volunteering information. If they'd asked then yes, by all means tell the truth, but it is like being in a court battle. Always the simplest of answers. Then, you'd have still been correct and they would have had to repair it as it should have been.

I wouldn't ask you to lie about anything. I'm just saying that showing all your cards before the bets are on the table could have saved you.

Here's what amuses me about that dealer... They are not even OFFERING to fix it, even for a fee! They are telling you to take it elsewhere??? They could have explained and said, "Sorry about the coverage but we can fix it for you for a small fee. When can you bring it in?" But to not even offer.... means they never want your business again. What a horrid dealer that is!

You are right though... at least you'll have it fixed and feel good about the repair job with a mechanic of your choice!
 
fz1uk said:
The crash bungs are R&G and as far as I can see the spacer between the crash bung and the frame is only there to add the required length for the crash bung to be far enough away from the frame. I also believe from what I see that the crash bung should not rotate atall if the bolt is properly torqued.. can someone verify this? The other side bung does not rotate and is solid. The thread hole does go all the way through to air on the other side of the engine mount if that is what you were talking about FZ1inNH.
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I don't have R&G bungs on mine. Matter of fact the ones I have were on the bike when I bought it and don't know what brand they are as there are no markings on them. I think it's possible for the plastic part to rotate if the clearance between it and the aluminum sleeve that fits inside of it is a little loose. It's usually the aluminum sleeve that sits up against the frame on one end and against the bolt on the other. One of mine slightly rotates and I have checked that it's at the proper torque so that shouldn't be a great concern.

I have no doubt that if done properly it will be as good as new. Heli-Coil inserts are very strong. Good luck with the repairs and keep us pdated...
 
Cheers guys I will get it fixed at a mechanic and just accept it for now.. I hope the helicoil fix will be less than £100. If it is I will gladly pay it to make sure the job is done properly. I think I'd pay it gladly at the moment anyway just to try and recover a little of that excited feeling I had last week about having my new to me bike.. I've been waiting for this upgrade since I passed my test and this reality is just a little hard to swallow.

While the mechanic does this fix I'll also get them to sort out the rest of the 12K mile service too and also cast an eye over the rest of the bike to dampen my fears that there could be more gremlins.

If the crash bung doesn't swivel once the thread is fixed NJFZ1. I shall....


meh.. I'm all talk.
 
fz1uk said:
The crash bungs are R&G and as far as I can see the spacer between the crash bung and the frame is only there to add the required length for the crash bung to be far enough away from the frame. I also believe from what I see that the crash bung should not rotate atall if the bolt is properly torqued.. can someone verify this? The other side bung does not rotate and is solid. The thread hole does go all the way through to air on the other side of the engine mount if that is what you were talking about FZ1inNH.

I agree with both of you.. I was too honest but I have never felt a reason to lie and had definitely felt I had nothing to hide. I downloaded the service manual - read up on the bolt torque specs.. and set my torque wrench to the correct setting (so over tightening is impossible) and thats why I used a torque wrench. I don't see what I did wrong. I don't see how I've hurt that thread in any way by checking the same thing that the Yamaha service manual recommends. I even used the right calibrated tools! As soon as I put the socket on the bolt it span with no effort!

Maybe this is all a saving grace.. and I can now have the work carried out by someone I trust.

Anyway - I know you guys should give me a mental slap for telling him the truth and in hindsight it was stupid of me. I guess my naivety will forever catch me out if I remain truthful or atleast not holding back some of the facts when useful.. Sorry guys but I don't operate like that. Dumb - yes.. Feeling good about myself - win.
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I wouldn't feel bad I would have done the same thing! The dealer should be a bit further thinking and fixed the problem for you for what it would have cost them. Now what are the chances that you will part with anymore hard earned cash at their shop?! Slim to none and slim just left town.

The longer bolt and lock nut should fix you right up, and no the crash bung should not turn, the dealer was full of#@*%. The ones on mine don't and I have not seen any that do yet, although admittedly I have only traveled to4 countries other than my own on the planet so I guess it is possible they are out there (but I'll leave that to the "qualified" technitions).
 
Righto guys - Its sorted! wohoo! I took it over to my local mechanic who I can trust to do the job properly and he helicoiled the hole and its as good as (or as near as dammit) new. Best part is he charged me £20's including labour and I now have a working but more importantly safe bike. He even gave it a good looking over to check for other faults that could be of concern. What on earth were Oxford Perfomance Center thinking?! If thats all it cost to sort they have been very very short sighted. I'm still going to approach the bike mags and post my experience of these guys as being some of the shadiest and least helpful characters I've had the pleasure of dealing with and I can only hope that the message will get across to people before they fall into a similar trap to mine. Trading standards weren't seemingly too interested unless I kept the bike in my garage broken until the situation was resolved by letter and small claims court proceedings (which could have been weeks/months) so I bit the bullet and I'm glad I did. Afterall I can't be without my transport for all that time and so much for buyers rights!

Thanks for all the help/guidance on these issues.. Now I'm going to start getting used to the bike I've bought and ride it like I stole it! :D

Finally.. I 2 finger salute the guys that sold it to me and hope their dealership crumbles to dust!
 
Glad to hear you got it fixed and i know for a fact that a properly done helicoil will hope just as well if not better than the original threads. It is one of the this that is taught to you as a technician if you went to school for it. So in my mind if they didn't do the 12k service and they wouldn't fix the stripped out bolt they don't have the proper professionals working there and I would definitely steer everyone I know away from that dealer. Again glad you got it sorted out and have a blast with your new ride.:Rockon:
 
Glad to know that she is fixed and mobile! Excellent and certainly cheap enough. :tup: Yes, the best you can do is to put into words what your experience was there. Keep it factual and civil and more people will heed your warnings than if you spout off and trash them without facts.

The other stuff can be cleaned up and handled. You could take a break from riding for a week (later in the year), remove the headers and take them to get the brackets blasted and then maybe a high-temp powder coating. Buy some new studs and nuts to mount them with. The other items on the bike should clean up well.

Happy riding!
 
fz1uk said:
Righto guys - Its sorted! wohoo! I took it over to my local mechanic who I can trust to do the job properly and he helicoiled the hole and its as good as (or as near as dammit) new. Best part is he charged me £20's including labour and I now have a working but more importantly safe bike. He even gave it a good looking over to check for other faults that could be of concern. What on earth were Oxford Perfomance Center thinking?! If thats all it cost to sort they have been very very short sighted. I'm still going to approach the bike mags and post my experience of these guys as being some of the shadiest and least helpful characters I've had the pleasure of dealing with and I can only hope that the message will get across to people before they fall into a similar trap to mine. Trading standards weren't seemingly too interested unless I kept the bike in my garage broken until the situation was resolved by letter and small claims court proceedings (which could have been weeks/months) so I bit the bullet and I'm glad I did. Afterall I can't be without my transport for all that time and so much for buyers rights!

Thanks for all the help/guidance on these issues.. Now I'm going to start getting used to the bike I've bought and ride it like I stole it! :D

Finally.. I 2 finger salute the guys that sold it to me and hope their dealership crumbles to dust!
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Glad to hear that worked out well. Ride safe.
 
The same thing happened to me, and they just put a longer bolt in and that fixed it. But there was enough threads left in the back of the mount to do this.:banghead:

Sorry if this doesn't help much but I just told the dealer to fix it.

sounds like this is becoming a problem with putting sliders on.:stirpot:
 
It actually worries me because I need to remove the right slider and replace it after my recent off. I've been reluctant to do so based on thread stress between torques!
 
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