Michelin Pilot Power 2CT Tire

thepopularjock

thepopularjock

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I picked up my new Michelin back tire on my last trip to San Marcos, Texas. I was coming out of a friends house and I saw the steel belts sticking out of my stock Battlax. I prayed my way 10 miles south and drove to New Braunfels. This is where I got talked into moving away from the stock Battlaxs (which I was very happy with). I was told that the 2CT has a thicker compound along the center of the tire to provide longer life for sport touring while maintaining the ability to be aggressive in corners. The salesman asked me what my precentage of driving was (track vs long trips) and I am about 75% road trips and about 25% track (or aggressive cornering). Basically the salesmen explained that this is the perfect tire for me because it would give me longer life on road trips (which I do a lot of) and still allow me to be aggressive while going through twisties and track days.

I flat out don't like it!!!! I don't know if it's just me but I have had several issues. The first is when I'm cornering. I actually wobble when I turn aggressively into a corner. I assume I'm hitting that "thicker compound" on the center of the tire. Whatever it is - I hate it!!! This is something that has made me adjust my driving style just to keep this tire. If I had the money I would drop this tire and go back to what I had.
The second issue is grip. I understand that all tires perform differently when they are cold but the rubber on this tire seems especially hard when it's cold. I was pulling into traffic today and accelerated from the stop sign. It was an aggressive move that you need a fast bike to perform (I shot out ahead of someone). I have done it a thousand times and didn't think twice about it. However, it was the first time I have done it on the 2CT. My back tire slid front and back and side to side!!! I had to let off the accelerator and put a foot down to balance myself. That was the first time that has happened when I hit the gas like that and it completely caught me off guard. This is not the first time that I have lost traction with this tire.
It has performed fairly well in the rain. In fact - the tread pattern is the first thing that you will notice about this tire. It is very unusual but it seems to work OK.
I have put about 700 miles on this back tire and I have to say that I would not recommend this tire to anyone. I have spoken to some people who love it and that is great. However I'm not one of them. Maybe it's my driving style or something else but whatever it is I'm weighing my options of buying a new tire vs riding this for a few thousand more miles.
 
You are certainly the first person I have seen ever say anything bad about the Pilot Power 2CT, that's very interesting

I have a set of Pilot Powers (single compound) on my Gen 1 and they are exceptional in all but these winter conditions (20F, rain, sleet) where they are frightening beyond belief...

I am curious about your tire pressures and the like; same as before?
 
pff... I've said the PP2CT's were crap for a long time.....

I never liked the damn things... they're not made for liter bikes...

once they heat up, they can't handle the power and the tire gets all slick and nasty...
 
I disagree, that tire is the best I've used in 27 years of riding. Warms up fast and sticks great.

Once my Q2s go to the track in a couple weeks I may have a new favorite.
 
thepopularjock said:
I picked up my new Michelin back tire on my last trip to San Marcos, Texas. I was coming out of a friends house and I saw the steel belts sticking out of my stock Battlax. I prayed my way 10 miles south and drove to New Braunfels. This is where I got talked into moving away from the stock Battlaxs (which I was very happy with). I was told that the 2CT has a thicker compound along the center of the tire to provide longer life for sport touring while maintaining the ability to be aggressive in corners. The salesman asked me what my precentage of driving was (track vs long trips) and I am about 75% road trips and about 25% track (or aggressive cornering). Basically the salesmen explained that this is the perfect tire for me because it would give me longer life on road trips (which I do a lot of) and still allow me to be aggressive while going through twisties and track days.

I flat out don't like it!!!! I don't know if it's just me but I have had several issues. The first is when I'm cornering. I actually wobble when I turn aggressively into a corner. I assume I'm hitting that "thicker compound" on the center of the tire. Whatever it is - I hate it!!! This is something that has made me adjust my driving style just to keep this tire. If I had the money I would drop this tire and go back to what I had.
The second issue is grip. I understand that all tires perform differently when they are cold but the rubber on this tire seems especially hard when it's cold. I was pulling into traffic today and accelerated from the stop sign. It was an aggressive move that you need a fast bike to perform (I shot out ahead of someone). I have done it a thousand times and didn't think twice about it. However, it was the first time I have done it on the 2CT. My back tire slid front and back and side to side!!! I had to let off the accelerator and put a foot down to balance myself. That was the first time that has happened when I hit the gas like that and it completely caught me off guard. This is not the first time that I have lost traction with this tire.
It has performed fairly well in the rain. In fact - the tread pattern is the first thing that you will notice about this tire. It is very unusual but it seems to work OK.
I have put about 700 miles on this back tire and I have to say that I would not recommend this tire to anyone. I have spoken to some people who love it and that is great. However I'm not one of them. Maybe it's my driving style or something else but whatever it is I'm weighing my options of buying a new tire vs riding this for a few thousand more miles.
Click to expand...

Is this your first bike? How many sets of tires have you had? What air pressures have you tried and what are you running now? Why would you listen to a salesman that you probably don't know?
Try dropping your pressure to 36 and see what you think of it.
 
I'd have to agree with Crazyjoe, at least as far as some of the points he making. Get the pressure right and those things are fantastic. Either way they will definantly have a more pronounced "drop" into a corner (which I like) than the battlax you had before, it's the profile. I've always felt very sure footed on them, and that includes track days and some very hard riding at the gap. I always ran the pressures a bit lower than what was posted on the bike (imfo decal), this took a bit of the edge off and made them very predictable. Ran at least 4 of them on the front of my old bike, with either a matching rear or a Road2 on the back. Favorite tire of all time.

Oh, and if you decide to ditch it real soon, I'll be happy to grab it for a song.
 
since I actually have more time to expand on my comment now... I'm going to go ahead and do that....

I tried the PP2CT's on my FZ a good while ago... when I had them on my ZX7R, I loved them, and I would run nothing else... that said, the experience was not the same on the FZ....

With the FZ, the tires would stick pretty good.... to a point.. then, the softer edges would overheat, and they'd become slick... after a good ride, the edges would turn blue due to overheating ... I was running my normal pressures, that I'd run on any other tire, which are not low "track" pressures that many people run... (Which creates extra heat in the tire) .. so, compared to a rider who drops pressure, my tires should not have gotten as hot.

Once they overheated once, the edges were never the same... they'd let go with the slightest throttle input while leaned over...

I've been riding for some time, and I've run pretty much every tire on the market (other than the low end stuff: Shinko, Full Bore, Tomahawk, etc) and I'd never experienced this problem as prevalent as it was with the PP2CT's... I'm used to a little tire slide under hard cornering conditions, on the road / on the track, but the PP2CT's after their first overheating cycle would just let go... no warning... no noise... no grip. I've had Pirelli Corsa III's slip on me, but they're very predictable and linear in the way that they slip... very easy to control... the PP2CT's were damn near uncontrollable once they let loose..

After noticing this problem, I did some research, and it's no surprise, but Michelin actually DOES NOT recommend these tires for a liter bike... because of the problem of: ... ... you guessed it.. overheating.

If you're out there really putting the power down, the tires will overheat, turn blue, and then, they're as good as trash... If you're a more casual rider that just wants a sporty tire, with a little more grip... they might work fine... but if you'll be out there pushing the limits.. there are many better choices...

I've actually had better performance out of single compound tires like the Pirelli Rosso than the multiple compound tires... the only exception I've noticed would be the Bridgestone BT016 and the Pilot Road 2... the Bridgestone, I haven't quite figured out why their multiple compounds don't overheat.. but I'm sure it has to do with the carcass design and its ability to dissipate heat... the PR2... the reason that worked well was because the outer tread was Pilot Power compound... however, because of the shape and carcass design of the PR2, the tire would let loose for other reasons, but it would be predictable all the while.
 
va_rider said:
since I actually have more time to expand on my comment now... I'm going to go ahead and do that....

I tried the PP2CT's on my FZ a good while ago... when I had them on my ZX7R, I loved them, and I would run nothing else... that said, the experience was not the same on the FZ....

With the FZ, the tires would stick pretty good.... to a point.. then, the softer edges would overheat, and they'd become slick... after a good ride, the edges would turn blue due to overheating ... I was running my normal pressures, that I'd run on any other tire, which are not low "track" pressures that many people run... (Which creates extra heat in the tire) .. so, compared to a rider who drops pressure, my tires should not have gotten as hot.

Once they overheated once, the edges were never the same... they'd let go with the slightest throttle input while leaned over...

I've been riding for some time, and I've run pretty much every tire on the market (other than the low end stuff: Shinko, Full Bore, Tomahawk, etc) and I'd never experienced this problem as prevalent as it was with the PP2CT's... I'm used to a little tire slide under hard cornering conditions, on the road / on the track, but the PP2CT's after their first overheating cycle would just let go... no warning... no noise... no grip. I've had Pirelli Corsa III's slip on me, but they're very predictable and linear in the way that they slip... very easy to control... the PP2CT's were damn near uncontrollable once they let loose..

After noticing this problem, I did some research, and it's no surprise, but Michelin actually DOES NOT recommend these tires for a liter bike... because of the problem of: ... ... you guessed it.. overheating.

If you're out there really putting the power down, the tires will overheat, turn blue, and then, they're as good as trash... If you're a more casual rider that just wants a sporty tire, with a little more grip... they might work fine... but if you'll be out there pushing the limits.. there are many better choices...

I've actually had better performance out of single compound tires like the Pirelli Rosso than the multiple compound tires... the only exception I've noticed would be the Bridgestone BT016 and the Pilot Road 2... the Bridgestone, I haven't quite figured out why their multiple compounds don't overheat.. but I'm sure it has to do with the carcass design and its ability to dissipate heat... the PR2... the reason that worked well was because the outer tread was Pilot Power compound... however, because of the shape and carcass design of the PR2, the tire would let loose for other reasons, but it would be predictable all the while.
Click to expand...

I agree with your comments but most folks don't ride like we do. He is probably geared to low for the conditions and speed which affects the rear tire traction even with slight throttle on conditions.

I know this is going to go over good but here goes anyway. If you (popularjock) are having problems with traction of almost any rear tire on the street --- you are having a problem learning how to ride. It's not the tire. Concentrate on being smooth in your transitions cornering, only shifting your weight, or shifting for that matter, when the bike is at TDC. It is easy to slip any tire in low gear going slow. Around town, I stay in low for a millisecond before shifting and prefer to be in 3rd or 4th. Then if I need to change lanes very fast --- I don't have to worry about a slip of the throttle.

Finally, I've ridden with many guys that thought they were fairly fast until they ride with someone that is fast --- then they catch on to how far they have to go. Practice lane changing, emergency breaking until you feel really comfortable --- then when you need it -- you'll be ready.
 
I know what you mean Joe... I thought I was fast years ago.... then, I rode with a NESBA Instructor... that made me realize how slow and sloppy I really was... I look back at my old videos from a while ago and just laugh at all of the amateur mistakes I was making...

but... then, I hit the books... and worked on skill every time I went out... I worked with a buddy of mine, and we would take turns following each other and critiquing each other... (You have to be thick skinned for that, and have a buddy who's willing to tell it to you straight... tell you exactly what you're messing up on without trying to sugarcoat it or be nice... and you have to be humble enough to take advice)

After several years of hitting the books and practice, practice, practice ... I returned to one of my favorite roads.... it used to be that a "fast" run on this road was about 5 minutes, 30 seconds.... that first trip back, I covered that same distance in less than 3 minutes...


I think we all need to work on our skills... and we need to work on our skills every time we go out... I can't ride anymore without thinking about my lane position and the lines I'm taking... I can't take a corner without reviewing in my mind how my body positioning is, and how that effects the handling and traction of the bike... I can't put in a screw without my hands shaking, but when it comes to the throttle, I can roll on 1/64th throttle precisely and accurately time and time again.... my wife used to hate riding on the back on curvy roads, because she got thrown around too much... she wanted a backrest on my Corbin seat because my throttle inputs were too abrupt... turns out, I was just a crappy rider.... now she doesn't mind hitting a curvy road... I've gotten a knee down with her on the back without upsetting her, or making her feel uncomfortable...

finally.. to tailor all of this to this thread... I've also noticed that now, tires last longer, they wear more evenly... and I can get better grip out of a lesser tire compared to people who aren't as smooth...
 
I'll be the first to admit... I am not fast and I have a TON of learning to do. What I am is a lesson on practicing control and the smoothness that Joe is talking about. I've been told and I've read over and over again that with properly practiced technique, the speed with naturally follow. I get a bit faster every year... :tup:
 
va_rider said:
finally.. to tailor all of this to this thread... I've also noticed that now, tires last longer, they wear more evenly... and I can get better grip out of a lesser tire compared to people who aren't as smooth...
Click to expand...

That's my point. It amazes me, here in no curve Flatland, how quickly I can flatten the middle of a good tire which blows my mileage on them. I usually get around 1500 miles in the twisties which is worn from edge to edge.

That is why I have my own professional tire changer --- to quit throwing away stuff until it's really worn out.
 
FZ1inNH said:
I'll be the first to admit... I am not fast and I have a TON of learning to do. What I am is a lesson on practicing control and the smoothness that Joe is talking about. I've been told and I've read over and over again that with properly practiced technique, the speed with naturally follow. I get a bit faster every year... :tup:
Click to expand...

That is the smart way to do it. Speed is all about confidence in yourself and that only comes with the knowledge you acquire as you work yourself up to it.
Of course, speed is also about being a little insanely stupid (which I am) and I'm not proud of that --- it's just the way it is. Guys that push the envelope know what I mean.
 
VA - Where did you see that Michelin doesn't recommend the Power 2CT as a liter bike tire???

When I go to their web site it is a recommended tire for the FZ1.

http://www.michelinmotorcycle.com/

If you're over heating a tire your air pressure isn't correct, your suspension isn't set up correctly, or you're ridding oddly (for lack of a better term).

I've ridden big Willow on 95 degree days and not had tires over heat on a liter bike. If turns 8, and 9 don't over heat a correctly set up bikes street riding will not.
 
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Hellgate said:
VA - Where did you see that Michelin doesn't recommend the Power 2CT as a liter bike tire???

When I go to their web site it is a recommended tire for the FZ1.

Michelin Motorcycle Tires

If you're over heating a tire your air pressure isn't correct, your suspension isn't set up correctly, or you're ridding oddly (for lack of a better turn).

I've ridden big Willow on 95 degree days and not had tires over heat on a liter bike. If turns 8, and 9 don't over heat a correctly set up bikes street riding will not.
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let me go looking and see if I can find where Michelin said they didn't recommend... it wasn't long after the tire was released...

trust me, my suspension is perfect... properly set up and custom built for me.

My pressures are just right as well... as I said, I've never had this problem with any OTHER tire.. just this one...

My riding isn't "odd" .. folks that have ridden with me can tell you that...

any of the above would be acceptable and normal questions if it happened with every tire I ever run... but, that's not the case... it's just the PP2CT ...
 
I can't find the thing from Michelin.... but all you have to do is go to Google and search for "Pilot Power 2CT Greasy" and you'll see plenty of people with the same problem... over and over again....
 
va_rider said:
but all you have to do is go to Google and search for "Pilot Power 2CT Greasy" and you'll see plenty of people with the same problem... over and over again....
Click to expand...

But you can search anything and find any result. You are the first complaint out of 30 people who have recomended the PP 2CT so I would say you are the anonmoly. Not wrong, but not common at all

Interesting info
 
Dustin said:
But you can search anything and find any result. You are the first complaint out of 30 people who have recomended the PP 2CT so I would say you are the anonmoly. Not wrong, but not common at all

Interesting info
Click to expand...

I hate to break it to you guys --- but Va rider is the only one riding FAST enough to have the problem. The PP2CT is an awesome tire for most riders, however, most track guys that are Intermediate or above will tell you same thing about the tire on a liter bike.

The key point about any tire discussion has to rotate around how YOU ride not how others ride. If you are a sport tourer -- your opinion should be completely different about tires than a track guy. You are trying to accomplish 2 different things.
 
Crazyjoe said:
I hate to break it to you guys --- but Va rider is the only one riding FAST enough to have the problem. The PP2CT is an awesome tire for most riders, however, most track guys that are Intermediate or above will tell you same thing about the tire on a liter bike.

The key point about any tire discussion has to rotate around how YOU ride not how others ride. If you are a sport tourer -- your opinion should be completely different about tires than a track guy. You are trying to accomplish 2 different things.
Click to expand...

I disagree Crazy, VA (nice guy btw) is not riding faster on the streets than turns 8 and 9 at Willow Springs.
 
Hellgate said:
I disagree Crazy, VA (nice guy btw) is not riding faster on the streets than turns 8 and 9 at Willow Springs.
Click to expand...

What group do you ride with at Willow Springs?

Generally, it's not how fast you go around a turn but how fast you're trying to come out that makes the difference. Are you laying rubber down coming out of every corner? I mean a strip of black rubber.

I"m not trying to suggest that I know everything about riding --- I don't. I am only a Intermediate in NESBA. But, I have had friends warn me against running the 2CT's at the track. I did, however, buy a set for the street where I don't push quite as hard.
 
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