Michelin Pilot Power 2CT Tire

Crazyjoe said:
I hate to break it to you guys --- but Va rider is the only one riding FAST enough to have the problem.
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That statement is stupid and absurd and just discredits you as far as I am concerned. I don't know you but I can safely say that you and va_rider are simply just not professionals and can't hold a candle to one--it's just not possible, unless you have been racing professionally since you were 6 years old. The owner of a riding school I took openly stated that he felt he wasn't even 1/10th the skill level of the real professionals, and he is an 8-time supersport champion, sponsored Suzuki rider and what-not. When he puts on schools or clinics, he rides circles around everyone, including fellow instructors & other racers--it was very eye-opening to see someone humbly admit that he was nothing compared to the real pros.

Like I said before, it's great to hear feedback that otherwise contradicts the general population--and you are backing it up with great information; but please, please don't toot your own horn about how great of a rider you are, because it's simply not true. I'm sure you're very good, very skilled and very fast but come on now, have some humility. Just because you could ride circles around me doesn't mean you should shove it in my face ;)

I can openly say I am a shit rider and every single one of these supersport tires are way, way more tire than I could ever utilize. Feedback from more experienced riders is great, and I'm glad to hear from guys like you!
 
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Dustin said:
That statement is stupid and absurd and just discredits you as far as I am concerned. I don't know you but I can safely say that you and va_rider are simply just not professionals and can't hold a candle to one--it's just not possible, unless you have been racing professionally since you were 6 years old. The owner of a riding school I took openly stated that he felt he wasn't even 1/10th the skill level of the real professionals, and he is an 8-time supersport champion, sponsored Suzuki rider and what-not. When he puts on schools or clinics, he rides circles around everyone, including fellow instructors & other racers--it was very eye-opening to see someone humbly admit that he was nothing compared to the real pros.

Like I said before, it's great to hear feedback that otherwise contradicts the general population--and you are backing it up with great information; but please, please don't toot your own horn about how great of a rider you are, because it's simply not true. I'm sure you're very good, very skilled and very fast but come on now, have some humility. Just because you could ride circles around me doesn't mean you should shove it in my face ;)

I can openly say I am a shit rider and every single one of these supersport tires are way, way more tire than I could ever utilize. Feedback from more experienced riders is great, and I'm glad to hear from guys like you!
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Well, I'm not sure why you decided you needed to tell me the way it is but, unfortunately, you should have read a little better because I never said I was a professional rider. Now that I know who you are, I'll be sure to ask for your opinion first before I post up.

On many forums the fast guys don't post anything because they get tired of these kinds of responses from folks that don't have a clue. Maybe I made a mistake trying to offer up the little I've learned but I do feel that many will understand.
 
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You do not have to be a super fast rider to have tires that are turned blue. You just need to spend $25 on some Pirelli Diablo Rosso take-offs. ;) I will post some photos of me posing with mine at the coffee shop next week.

VA you selling any take-offs? lol
 
Pilot Road 2CT's here. Now as I understand it, the racing tires are more likely to be slick when cold, and I've had only a few times when my Roads were cold that they slipped a bit just past an apex. I'm not racing with them, and could certainly push harder (I'm still a novice), but I'd say after a bit of warm up, the grip as much as I need them to, including pushing pretty damn hard on some choice twisties we have one a few great roads in Texas. I've never not had confidence in them other than when cold, which I suppose is normal.

Haven't had the Powers though - but I would doubt the composition would cause the wobble mentioned at the start of the thread. I could be wrong but I think many people would have found that out by now, and the tire wouldn't be for sale.

I'll say I'm surprised too - never heard anything bad about a Michelin.
 
Some interesting comments in here.
While I have never used PP2CTs on the track I have used standard PP's and they have excellent grip right up until the point that they let go without warning.
So I could see where they could be a problem when used as a Track tire.
Absolutely zero feedback when at the limits of traction.
On the road I'm sure they are a fine tyre because you aren't pushing anywhere near as much as your are at the track.
 
Hmm... I'm no Rossi- beater, but I am pretty damn quick nonetheless and I can say I've done well with 2ct's, ofcourse that was a different bike. I have a set of PP's that will be going on soon, I guess I'll know more about how the bike and tires get along when they are on and it's warm enough to ride. I could see how they potentially may make for a sketchy ride on the Fz1, at least compared to my old Z1000, the bike is alot more point-and-shoot, much stiffer frame. I agree the 'powers will let go a bit abruptly but I never found it was so often or to the point that it really threw me off. One thing that sticks in my mind, though, is that if you are serious about track days- or trying to ride a 10/10th's pace on the street all of the time, why even bother with a "street" tire? Ofcourse it's not going to hold up. Time for low mileage / super grippy tires, something designed for race applications.

Another thing, on my old bike I was always very smooth when riding fast... so the tires worked for me. It's about running what your comfortable with.
 
As I've said in every tire thread ever started on this board... you've got to buy tires for the way you ride... if you can get away with Pilot Roads, get away with them.... if they don't have the handling characteristics you like, find something that does...

I'm trying to impart the knowledge I've picked up by trying so many different tires, and giving my first-hand experience from the tires I have run in the past....

One of the joys of being individuals as motorcycle riders is that we don't all have to ride the same way... if you like to sport-tour, then do just that... if you like to rail on the twisties... do that... if you just like to hit the track,... do that... but in any case, realize that there is a tire for each occasion... there's no one "best" tire....


In my experience though, in this case, I've had better grip available from the regular Pilot Power when compared to the Pilot Power 2CT... the regular Power doesn't overheat the edges... they still get hot.. and they ball up rubber... but I got much more consistent grip from the regular Power in comparison.... and at a lower price...

Everyone ride your own ride... find a tire that works best for the way you ride.... when you do, write a review on the forum so that others that share your same riding style can compare... when you find one that doesn't fit your style, write your thoughts on it so others can help identify the weaknesses for you, and help to suggest something else...

Perhaps I was a bit hasty with my first response to this post... and I apologize for that... but in my opinion, these tires were not worth the extra cost of the 2CT to me... and the amount of softer tire actually given seems like more of a sales gimmick than being functional.... dollar for dollar... the regular Pilot Power provided better feel and more consistency for me..... frankly, at this point, I wouldn't buy either... as I've found tires that work much better for me...
 
I think it's mostly important to know the WHY about the 2ct's. They are designed with stiffer centers to accommodate longer wear life for most of us who spend more time vertical than at 45* around turns. If you are challenging the limits of grip all the time and need a real performance tire, you have no reason to own a 2ct tire.

Take a scenario: using it on a track for example... the softer sides are going to wear faster than the intent of the tire's design (because it's not a track tire) and likely, the tire is going to develop a "tall-ness" that would be even less predictable because the denser center is not going to wear as fast. I'll bet that could contribute to some handling challenges.

So for the discussion's sake, I would respond to VA_Rider by saying I think the discussion is good, especially as a vehicle to discuss the various needs and expectations by all kinds of riders - which helps everyone understand how best to analyze their next purchase. I think some people may find it difficult to see things from other possible perspectives, such as saying - "hey this sucks" without considering that their situation may represent a small part of the big picture.

Sooo... maybe a tire does suck in certain scenarios, and in others it's great! How better to discover this than these great threads by helpful logic-minded people sharing their own experiences? Weight, bike, suspension, power, talent, style, riding surface, pressure, etc.etc.etc... all make a huge impact.

For what it's worth, I think the 2ct's are great (for me, for the reasons I've shared), and I know I'm putting the tougher center to use. 5 years from now, I could have a completely different perspective.
 
FWIW, I believe the Pilot Power 2CT utilizes the same compound as the single-compound Pilot Power with the exception of 10% on the sides, which is a softer compound.

So my understanding is that if the original Pilot Power works ok for you, the 2CT should perform the same except at very high lean angles where it will be softer (Which may be the reason why va_rider is finding the 2CT feels squirmy?). In that sense, the 2CT and the 1CT should really be yeilding the same sort of tread life and characteristics during regular riding

Comments?

Great thread BTW :)
 
As far as I can remember, you're correct.. the center of a 2CT is essentially a Pilot Power, and the only difference is on the edges... which is where I had the problem with these tires... the off-center band of tire showed the same wear as a regular Pilot Power for me, and there was no problems there.. the only problems for me occurred at the edge of the contact area, where the compound changed... in that area, the softer compound would overheat.
 
Here are the specs I looked at when picking out tires. To be perfectly honest, I can't say I've ever even leaned over as far at needed to tax the side wall softer composition!
 

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looking at those charts... you can see why I said I think the 2CT's are a sales gimmick... the Power Pure's actually give the change in compound where needed... but the 2CT... for a tire that isn't made for track riding... the amount of softer compound is all but unusable on the street... ... but if you run around a track, or spend a lot of time leaned over to those angles... they overheat...

FWIW... I have a set of Power Pure's waiting to be spooned on at the first glimpse of nice weather.... I've been meaning to give those a shot for a while...
 
I'm going to agree on the point that the regular PP is a good, solid tire, and there is no real need to spoon out the extra $$$ for the 2ct. I think that going from something like the stock tires, or Pirelli Diablo's for instance, they are going to have a more pronounced "drop", and this took me some time to get acclimated to. The "perfect" combo for me ended up being the Road2 rear and the regular PP up front, with pressures around 36-38 tops. I'm about to put PP's on F/R... I got the set shipped for $170, which was fine by me. I'll go to a Road2 rear after the PP wears out- I prefer the feel a little better to be honest. It is absolutely about the rider and what they feel best on. I personally don't like Dunlop's much at all (though the Q2 has my interest) but I know dudes that SWEAR by Dunlop, period.

I'm interested in the Bridgestone 021 as well...
 
It's been a long time since I've tried the BT021... and I actually thought that at this point, it''d be replaced with the BT023... although maybe the 23 is just a new addition.. and the 21 still is being produced...

Billy (FZ1RiderNY) could probably fill you in on the 021..
 
va_rider said:
It's been a long time since I've tried the BT021... and I actually thought that at this point, it''d be replaced with the BT023... although maybe the 23 is just a new addition.. and the 21 still is being produced...

Billy (FZ1RiderNY) could probably fill you in on the 021..
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I don't want to run it but I think it would be a good fit for a lot of these guys. High mileage and handles great. You might be right that it has been superseded by the 023.
 
From a facts sheet, the BT-023 looks like a far superior tire in every way when compared to the 021. It looks as though Bridgestone is not producing any more BT-021s and it seems like they are on closeout everywhere I've looked.

It might be worth the extra $40 or $50 you pay for a set of 023s if the hype is true
 
Well... the reason I say to talk to Billy is that a while back, when he was looking for new tires, I know he was looking at the 23's.... we discussed them... but I think the reviews on them compared to the 21's at the time weren't favorable... ... but... let me try to get Billy involved before I jump too far into that one...
 
The problem is, once you've decided it's a "sales gimmick", you've categorized it as having zero value to anyone, and also pass judgment on anyone who chose to buy into it. That's where the logic disappears. There is no way on God's green earth a tire company, and now others, would invest the research into making dual-compound tires if there was absolutely no value to any of their customers. Perhaps the Pures are now what you'd call '2nd-generation'. Whatever... but since the tire obviously doesn't agree with your riding, it doesn't mean that the tire has no intrinsic or performance value to others.

My suggestion is, keep the judgment to how you have experience with it, and maybe shed light on how, where, why your failure took place. That's the way to help others with your experience.

Calling a technologic innovation "sales gimmick" doesn't help at all.

A sales gimmick is the application of orange paint into the tread voids in the tire as the "StormBringer" autobahn style-monster motorcycle (Kawasaki in formals) where looking at yourself in the mirror is what your after.
 
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