Self defense or ???

speeddemon2588 said:
How can you ambush someone as ONE person, in your own house, against TWO people who just broke in? Furthermore would you walk down the stairs after hearing gun shots? Again did he handle it badly, yes. Is he likely some what mentally unstable, yes. However had she not broken in to begin with she wouldn't have been shot. End of story, there is no argument to that fact. Again your not in your right mind when that happens to you. So to comment on what he should or should not have done is irrelevant from an outside perspective. He protected himself the best he thought. Lastly the only reason this is news worthy is because they were very young.
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Sitting in a recliner waiting for her to come down instead of getting the --bleeped--- outta there and calling the police. It doesn't even matter anyways--he went from being on the defensive to the offensive. He shot them, which he was 100% in the right to do so. I own guns, I have a CCW, but I'm not going to execute people. Especially over money/jewelry whatever. Sounds like this guy was just fed up with burglaries (who wouldn't be), but it doesn't give him the right to use deadly force when it isn't needed. He'll be convicted of murder.
 
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packnrat said:
is there a link to the new report?

from what is said here any fool who breaks or enters anothers house gets what they deserve. as are they there to murder you? or just to tickle you with a feather? i tend to think not the second item.

yes i carry and even have a permit
(like who needs a permit to protect ones self, family, property.).

:deadhorse:

but using a gun is the LAST resort. and if it is to the point of shooting someone yes it is to stop them in there tracks. aka: two - three shots to the mid mass.
no "finishing" shot needed.

were/what is the history of the kids?
were/what is the history of the home owner?

more facts needed first. some of you should never be allowed to be on a jury as you already have it all set.


.
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Yup I got it all set. They broke in and wound up dead. Nothing more to it. As I've said he went over the top but if they hadn't come into his house they would still be alive. Period! There is no debating that fact.
 
waldo877 said:
Sitting in a recliner waiting for her to come down instead of getting the --bleeped--- outta there and calling the police.
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he retreated to his basement... in VA, you would even have to do that, we can stand our ground. He gave her every chance to just get out...

where he was wrong was in "shooting them dead" or however he put it.... he should have simply called his lawyer and not spoke a word to the police... that's da@##ing evidence against him... but it could also point to his mental state at the time, two people just broke in... he just shot and killed one, what's next, he was not thinking right at that point.

I like to follow these stories, but tend to not make judgments based on the news reports... they never get it right the first time, and we usually never hear the full story.

Best advice I was ever given, if you have to shoot someone to defend yourself, if they are dead or alive, don't say a word, talk to your lawyer and let them do what they do best.
 
here it is castle law,,
you break in my house,with me there...somebody leaving in a body bag.

Dont like it....dont break in my house. :nono:

Never have to worry about another crime commited by those two again.
 
I just think this is a tragedy. Two young people did something stupid (and who hasn’t done some stupid things in their lives) and are now dead, that’s tragic. The householder, Mr Smith, has been forced to defend himself and his property and now faces serious criminal charges. That’s tragic.

While Mr Smith has the right to defend himself there is something seriously wrong here. To dispatch two young lives after they have been disabled and are no longer a threat is just not right. The report says
'Smith described it as "a good clean finishing shot",' according to the compliant.
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How can you treat human life with such distain? I don’t have the full story and it will be up to the courts to determine if Mr. Smith acted appropriately, let’s wait and see. What I do see is that two lives have been cut short, Mr Smith faces an uncertain future and three families are left to grieve, there are no winners here. It’s just tragic. Just my 2 cents worth.
 
johnnyontherocks said:
I'm willing to bet that had these two been middle twenties and a non white ethnicity it would not have made the paper or news.
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I can understand age but race had nothing to do with this situation, why bring it up?

Had they been Black you can bet you arse Jesse Jackson would be there crying the race card and this would be much bigger news than it is now.
 
It seems fishy. Why would the second burgler, so far described as unarmed, go looking for where the gun fire came from in that home? You would think they would get the hell out of there.
 
OneSizeFitsAll said:
I can understand age but race had nothing to do with this situation, why bring it up?

Had they been Black you can bet you arse Jesse Jackson would be there crying the race card and this would be much bigger news than it is now.
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Wasn't bringing race into the equation. I'm willing to bet there have been other situations very similar to this across the country and its looked over. This story legs come from the fact that they "appear" to be all american good kids in photographs.

How different do you think peoples view of the crime perpetrated by these kids would be if the story simply stated two burglars killed by elderly home owner.
 
Bottom line for me is that justified or not, good kids or bad, kids or adult regardless of race or the burglers socioeconomic background. Regardlkess of all those circumstances if ending the life of two kids does not weigh hevily on your mind for the rest of your life there is something wrong with you. This guy was proud about it. Justified? Maybe, but he is a monster none the less.
 
Hail said:
if ending the life of two kids does not weigh hevily on your mind for the rest of your life there is something wrong with you.
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Couldn't have said it better... I carry, have home protection... but it would bother me for the rest of my life if I had to end someones life.... even if they were the worse POS on earth... to have that finality in my hands would bother me. I wouldn't hesitate to defend myself, family or friends, but it is just one of them things. Same with our great service men and women.... PSDT is not new, I feel for those who have served over the years in combat... even in a kill or be killed situation it bothers most people.
 
"The bodies of cousins Haile Kifer, 18, and Nicholas Brady Schaeffel, 17, were found in Byron Smith's basement in Little Falls, Minnesota on Friday - the day after they were shot dead on Thanksgiving. When police arrived at his home after reports of suspicious activity, Smith, 64, confessed to shooting the teenagers repeatedly and stashing their bodies after they broke into his home, authorities said. ............he shot Schaeffel when he came into view.
When the teenager tumbled down the stars, Smith shot him in the face as he lay on the floor, looking up.

He then shot her several times in the chest with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to her cousin, and with as she gasped for air, fired a shot under her chin 'up into the cranium'."

The bloke is full of sh1t.......he simply executed them. I bet he has use the phrase to his friends "dead men tell no tales". He was not defending himself. Had he been defending himself he would have issued a warning first before firing, then once the threat had be imobilised called the police and ambulance immediately. This bloke never even contacted police till they came to him. This bloke not only shot the teenagers, but he moved their bodies (interfering with the crime scene) and THEN he ensured they were dead by firing additional shots, THEN he attempts to hid the evidence! Let me tell you, if I were one of the investigating police officers I would be seriously doubting they even broke into his house. I suspect he lured them there for the purpose of killing them. The bloke is a physcopathic killer!

It's people like this that will eventualy lead to the loss of your "right" to bear arms.
 
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Well, if anyone breaks into this house, the end result will be the same... but I'm fairly certain it will be one shot without the need for a finishing at all.

Was he within his rights? Yes. Was he using an under-powered gun and a TERRIBLE shot? Yes.

What would be everyone's opinion if the story was as simple as these two broke in, he killed both with one shot each and nothing more elaborate than that? Still the same result.........

I'd really hate to find myself in a situation where I had to kill another human being but if it is them or my family, you can bet they will not be telling their side to the cops. Period.
 
johnnyontherocks said:
Wasn't bringing race into the equation. I'm willing to bet there have been other situations very similar to this across the country and its looked over. This story legs come from the fact that they "appear" to be all american good kids in photographs.

How different do you think peoples view of the crime perpetrated by these kids would be if the story simply stated two burglars killed by elderly home owner.
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I wondered what these kids looked like. I have been behind on the news and only heard about this through this forum.
Here they are:
 
Cobalt said:
Well, if anyone breaks into this house, the end result will be the same... but I'm fairly certain it will be one shot without the need for a finishing at all.

Was he within his rights? Yes. Was he using an under-powered gun and a TERRIBLE shot? Yes.

What would be everyone's opinion if the story was as simple as these two broke in, he killed both with one shot each and nothing more elaborate than that? Still the same result.........

I'd really hate to find myself in a situation where I had to kill another human being but if it is them or my family, you can bet they will not be telling their side to the cops. Period.
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But its not really the same result. One shot, no problem. Its reasonable to assume your life is in danger when you hear windows breaking and strange people in your home. So you shoot in defense, you kill them with the shot. Totally within your right.

Thats not what happened. He shot them, they didn't die. They were obviously no threat anymore because he could walk up to them and see they werent armed. When he dragged the girl and then blew her away instead of calling for help, he crossed the line. I don't think she could do much while gasping for air like he described. Why not go to the neighbors house at that point and call police? The boy was dead, and the girl was seriously hurt and probably dying. He was no longer defending himself. Thats why he's on 2mil bail, and why he's being charged with 2nd degree murder in a state that is pretty lax on gun laws.
 
You can spend minutes, hours, days, weeks, or even months over-analyzing a situation; trying to put the pieces together, justifying what could've, would've happened... or you can just leave the pieces on the floor and move the f@*k on.

These are the consequences of living the "thug life". Right or wrong, it doesn't matter.
 
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